Jessica: [00:01:47] Yeah, sure. Heather, thanks for that. You know, when you were talking, I was thinking, yeah, this is a this is a way that therapists can really level up and they don't have to go completely into coaching. They don't have to transition. Now that's my experience. I found coaching and found it so valuable that I completely transitioned in. My website is now just coaching versus the therapy. But, you know, I think what's important to to tell us, probably some of your listeners too, is the way that I started out was waiting for clients to come and needing your service, as you know, needing the marketing, because I remember sitting in my office just wondering when the next client was going to call with my calendar out, counting how many sessions I had scheduled for the week, and what got me out of that jam anyway was to hire a coach. I got a mentor, I did a mastermind and went to private practice completely. So I think that's the first, you know, one of the first ways the pathways to leverage time is to make more money as a, as a therapist, private pay versus, you know, being on insurance panels. So that was the first thing that I did. Right. But what I found was I wasn't super satisfied then either, because I started seeing I was grateful to see 20 plus clients a week. Right. But 20 plus clients a week, plus administration and writing progress notes and all of that is super overwhelming, you know? And I thought, how long can I do this? And here's the here's the here's the really the story, my origin story of being a coach.

Jessica: [00:03:26] And I was just talking about this on a different podcast. So I was trying to avoid notes in between sessions. And I was on the internet like, you know, surfing and doing things. And I caught this. I guess it came up in my email. It was in the afternoon and it was Eben Pagan, and he was talking about a coach that he was interviewing in. You know, it was like in ten minutes. And I hopped on this call just to watch. And this webinar changed my life. So the coach was talking about how clients need to invest in their change. And he said he sold coaching packages, like ten coaching sessions in a package and was charging $3,000. And I was like, oh my gosh, a light bulb went off in my head for two reasons. One, I think that our clients do need to make an investment in the change that they want. So that was the first thing that was super powerful. Like, you know what, if I could say to my clients like, hey, this is going to take 3 or 6 months and sell them a package. So I started investigating how to get that done. And that was really the beginning of therapist to coach when that happened.

Heather: [00:04:38] Yeah, I love that because so often I mean, I love that you're like I was avoiding doing progress notes. I have done that. Not necessarily progress notes, but many a time where I've avoided doing work and I'm like on the internet searching for something, you know, and then I find that thing that sparks an idea. Um, so I definitely love that. And then you just made the leap and jumped on and we're like, hey, what if I could do that? And I think that's the first big thing is asking yourself that question, what if I could do something like that? What would it look like for my business? How could it change my business? And the other thing is that you talked about, you know, having 20 plus clients and and how long can I sustain this? Is this really, you know, healthy for for you because or are you going to be working yourself towards burnout? Because I do think that so many therapists I mean, you guys give your all. And so, you know, burnout is definitely something that can occur when you are trying to see as many enough clients to pay your overhead and to pay yourself. And all of that's kind of this vicious cycle.

Jessica: [00:05:53] Yeah. The one thing I think one of the things that I think is really important is for therapists to know they don't have to make this jump completely. I was talking with my attorney the other week and she said, you have a higher risk tolerance than some people. The way that I started was I added coaching to my my therapy practice website. And it's not illegal to do that, but there's just some, you know, some risks to doing that. What I've come now to find out because I want to help therapists who don't, who don't want to make a huge leap. And I would say that they could do a couple of things I could say. I would say definitely learn, definitely learn this onboarding process, because as a therapist, you could sell a higher ticket, maybe like an intensive day instead of doing coaching. So that was another thing that I did too early on, was once I knew how to do a breakthrough session, and I can tell you what that means in a second. Once I learned how to do that, it was a way to offer a new service to clients. And and I wasn't a hard sell because I actually I don't really see myself as like a sales person. So the breakthrough session protocol is super valuable for that. So they don't have to make a jump from like, you know, I'm a therapist and I take insurance to I'm a coach and start all over.

Heather: [00:07:07] Yeah, that's one of the things that I, that I like that you kind of touched on is that it wasn't a hard sell kind of thing. Sometimes as allied health professionals or even just anyone that we're sell has like such a negative connotation. It makes you cringe inwardly. You're like, wait, I have to sell. I thought I was just helping my clients, but that's really when you, um, I have a friend who wrote a book, Catherine Brown, and it's, uh, when good humans sell. And the idea behind it is that selling is really about solving a problem that someone has. So when you look at it from that lens, all of a sudden it doesn't feel icky. You're like, wait a second, you wouldn't sell someone on something that they don't need. If they don't have a problem, that's when it gets icky. When you're just trying to push something on someone, when they don't need it, when you're like, hey, I see you have a problem, you have a struggle. Here's something that I have that can help you. There's nothing icky. There's nothing uncomfortable. There should be nothing uncomfortable about that.

Jessica: [00:08:18] Right? Yeah. And I think that was one of the mindset pieces that I had to work through too. You know, when I did my mastermind the first time, it was a big investment. It was, I'll just say it was $20,000 to join that mastermind, but it was life changing. And so one of the things when I was doing my mindset work later on was what if that that coach, my mentor therapist. What if she wouldn't have offered that to to the other therapists that she was teaching and helping? Where would I be? And I would actually not have the same lifestyle that I have had. She hadn't been there to offer that to me. So that's one of the ways that I can think about it now when I offer, you know, ten sessions for 3000 or 3500, like, that's that's what I think is this is going to be life changing for this client, right?

Heather: [00:09:06] Absolutely, absolutely. You're helping them with a problem that they have. So you talked about breakthrough sessions. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about that breakthrough session. What is it. How do you do it.

Jessica: [00:09:20] Yeah. So when I started out because I was just getting started, I was doing free sessions and free sessions would I would call them a breakthrough session. And it was a consultation with three parts. And this is where you don't have to sell. It's really helping the client make micro decisions towards. Investing in themselves. So the first thing it would be. Heather. What do you want to create? What? For me? I'm a couples coach. So what would your relationship look like if you had a realistic magic wand? And we start to unpack, like, all of the things that would be really great about that. And there's some questions that go with that. That's the first chunk of that. And then we want to uncover the hidden challenges that prevent them from doing it. And so the next third of that session is what have you already tried? What is the worst part about this? And it's really taking them from where they want to be at this high place down to like checking out the depths of how this feels. And I don't want to leave the client there.

Jessica: [00:10:19] So the way that we end it or, you know, bring them back up, is to start asking them what it would be like if they could have that. And do they want to talk about a plan? And at the end of that, after I ask them what was valuable, because I want to confirm that this was valuable for them and every every client that I've taken, this, this taken them through this session is super powerful. And ask, what's been most valuable for you about our time together? And they say things like, they got a lot of insight in themselves about it. They're already starting to get the work, you know, moving by doing this. And I'll ask them simply, do you want to hear about my coaching services? 100% say yes, 100% don't buy, but 100% say yes. And I would say converts about 50% even at that. Really. You know what we would think of a dramatic increase in price? They are, you know, excited, interested and know what's ahead of them. You know, at the end of that session.

Heather: [00:11:16] Absolutely. How long is the session? Is it like an hour long session or.

Jessica: [00:11:21] I tell them I book off for me an hour and a half because I want enough time at the end to wrap up loose ends to like, you know, figure out what they need to do with that. A lot of them are about an hour or an hour and ten minutes.

Heather: [00:11:34] Okay. Yeah, yeah. And that's yeah, I love that. I love that you're able to kind of walk them towards I mean. You know, I think with, with therapy, when you can look at it and say, okay, I'm struggling with this. Sometimes people are so like head down in their struggle that asking that question, what would it look like if you didn't have this? If you. What would it look like? You know, what does what does life look like? What do you want it to look like? All of a sudden they're like, oh, okay. I haven't really thought about that. I hadn't yeah, let's talk about that. And there's that hope piece that like maybe, maybe I could have, you know, this kind of life maybe or at least improve the life that I have. So what are some misconceptions that you feel like you encounter when people when therapists, you know, when you're talking to them about coaching versus just traditional therapy?

Jessica: [00:12:30] Yeah. So I think one of the biggest pieces is that there's a notion that therapy is based on past experiences, and coaching is based on future experiences. And that is a definite misconception because therapists are absolutely looking towards the future, and coaches have to be able to talk about what happened in the past. The real difference between therapy and coaching is the medical necessity and the level of functioning that the client has. If for me, I do work with couples and if they have a significant mental health issue, I don't take them on as a coach. So that's the other thing that I can find out in that breakthrough session. Now, you know, as as a therapist, I have, you know, a little bit more ability to assess what's going on before before the session. So I ask some questions. I have a form they fill out. And so I have ways to determine that a little bit before I meet them. But I think that's the biggest thing is these these funny things that therapists say. And I think there's a lot of fear. And one of the reasons that I really want to help other therapists is because, you know, we're in a time where therapy is changing and there's a lot of corporations offering therapy really cheap, and the therapists are working a lot of hours. I've talked with a few of them who have to be almost on call. They have to be able to text their clients back. They have to be able to do a lot of things and they're not making the money. I thought it was really bad when I was on insurance with all of the paperwork and stuff. But, you know, being private pay was really a liberating thing. But even that's becoming challenging, I think as as the time is going on with big corporations buying up, you know, a lot of the therapy space.

Heather: [00:14:10] Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And there's I mean, that could be a whole nother episode that we could go off into.

Jessica: [00:14:17] We could into.

Heather: [00:14:18] That. I'm sure everyone has their their emotions and their feelings about kind of where the industry is going and the goods and the bads of it, you know, um, I would.

Jessica: [00:14:28] Say one, one other misconception I'd add to it if, if it comes back to me, the misconception that therapists need another certification. Now, I did get a a coaching certification. I didn't go through an IFS or I didn't go through anything that was long standing. But as a therapist, I do not need another certification to be a coach. And so if therapists are concerned, they have to do that. That would be a misconception as well.

Heather: [00:14:53] Mm. Yeah, I could see that definitely. Do you feel like there's some and maybe misconceptions isn't the right word but some feelings towards like coaching versus therapy that, that maybe a therapist might have.

Jessica: [00:15:09] Yeah, I think, you know, I was reading on Reddit because I do a lot of research in the market, research in this, in this world, and there are a lot of stories and they're really horrible. And my heart goes out to the people who experienced this, but therapists who've lost their license and become life coaches or, you know, those kinds of things, there's not regulation for that. And so those were the couple of things that really stood out to me. If you go on to Reddit, has a therapist category and you can read about a lot of the things that therapists are really upset about, and that was the biggest thing, that it's not regulated. And, you know, people anybody could slap up a shingle for, for coaching as opposed to therapy. And my response to that would be, there's a lot of therapists who also I mean, those therapists turned coaches that were, you know, talked about, well, they were therapists before that, you know. So, you know, I think it's just really hard to determine that. Like who? I just think that's a that's a that was something that really blew my mind when I was reading it.

Heather: [00:16:10] Yeah. Yeah. So how as a coach, because I know that one of the things that you had considered at one point in time is letting go of your licensure. Um, and so how does a coach gain that authority component when working with when people are looking for, you know, therapy or, or help? Let's just say help in general?

Jessica: [00:16:32] Yes, yes. Well, I was so I was so worried about that too. Like, what if I take off my credential and take off the now I still do have my w. I supervise some therapists. I think in the future I may actually take that off. It's a really hard pill to swallow after you spend, you know, four years, your two years in grad school and then, you know, licensing licensure protocol. But one of the things that I found out that I could do that was amazing. There's two things we talked about this with the targeting, and I'll say that too. But the first is I could say I spent time as a therapist. I can't use my license, I can't use my license title. But on my website, I say as a a former therapist, right. So that's bam, I have, I have, you know, some credential with that. And then the other thing is, and I think you like this with the marketing piece is my was talking with my website guy and he said, what if we take off therapy off your website, but leave it on the back end of the SEO? So if Heather, you went on to Google and you type in couples therapy, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania I'm still coming up at the top, even though it now is, you know, addressing the same issue but offering coaching.

Jessica: [00:17:45] And I do have an explanation of what coaching is versus, you know, therapy and that kind of piece. And of course, when I talk to them on the phone, I say, this is coaching and if you need more support then I would refer you out. So I think there's some ways that you can absolutely capitalize on being a therapist that a coach doesn't have. And that's one of the things that I think I don't want our therapists to lose sight of because, you know, they're told, go get a new website, get a new LLC, get a new bank account, and start all over as a coach. And then I'm like, I'm brand new. But what about the ten years of experience that I have? And you know, all of the education I have.

Heather: [00:18:26] And even from a marketing standpoint, the traction that you've gained from your website, because launching a brand new website, you've got to kind of work yourself out of the sand pit. And whereas if you have had a website that's been out there for five, six, whatever years, you've gained some natural attraction to that through SEO.

Jessica: [00:18:48] Absolutely. Now, I think when I made the leap, when I was telling you, I was in my office crying, counting up to the appointment types, I was a sole proprietor on insurance, and I had to get a new website to go private pay. So at that point, you know it does. Sometimes if you're on insurance, I think it makes sense to get a new website. And there you might use the the use your credential. As I was a therapist and now I'm doing coaching. And I think that still gives you some, some leverage with, with people who who think they need therapy. And not everyone needs therapy. Some people do. And that's why we need good therapists.

Heather: [00:19:23] Well, I think that's a really when we were talking in a in a prior conversation, that's one of the things that I love that you brought up is that you're like, there is a place absolutely for therapy. And and you kind of touched on it even in our conversation today. But there's also a place for coaching and and recognizing that when someone comes in for that breakthrough session and you're meeting with them and you realize that you're like, okay, coaching is not right for you, then you immediately refer them to a therapist. Um, you know, if they have like some diagnosis or disorders, things like that are more complex. That's when you kind of, you know what? I think a therapist would actually be better for you, a better situation.

Jessica: [00:20:07] Yeah, I think it's absolutely I mean, with my training as a therapist and my ethical principles, which I'm not going to lose just because I changed the title, you know, I'm definitely looking out for people's best interest and making sure that they're taken care of.

Heather: [00:20:20] Yeah. Yeah. So and you touched on this a little bit. Um, how do you market differently as a coach versus a therapist? And one thing that you had said that we talked about is that, you know, as a therapist, you can't obviously have people pay ahead of time, but as a coach, you can you can do this package where it's like ten sessions for 3000 or whatever. So that is a big difference for you in your business. But so how does that how do you market differently for that?

Jessica: [00:20:53] Yeah, well, I do have the, the, um, the website, which is a wonderful thing for me. So if you've built out a website for your therapy practice, that's really powerful. You know, in the beginning, you know, I mentioned the risk tolerance and mine was I added coaching to my as a service page, and I distinguished that. So that was one way. Now you could have you could have your therapy practice and have coaching go to a different landing page, go to a different site. I don't know enough about that. But what I would say is as a coach, one of the amazing things I can do is ask for feedback about my services. I can send them a form for review. I can ask them, hey, would you do a Google review if you found this helpful? So that's a great way to because people are looking for social proof, they want to know if this works or not. So I think asking for reviews is an amazing thing as a coach. The other thing is I've started doing and we talked about this a little bit because it's a new thing for me doing $5 ads on Facebook.

Jessica: [00:21:53] Each ad is $5. Of course, it's more than $5 a day, but it's a really powerful way to get in front of your potential clients. Talking, just doing little teaching videos. There are three minutes long, then you progress them to maybe a ten minute video. So people are getting familiar with you. And I think that's another way, that a unique way that I would suggest new, new coaches can market their practice. You know, doing a webinar and doing those kind of things is so expensive and you don't know who you're trying to reach. But I think doing these smaller ads and getting people to be familiar with you, and it also can build up your pages if you have a social media page and you know, we know this, but you have no followers, no one's going to see the powerful things that you could, you know, that you can help them with. So you do have to leverage your your advertising with with some, some ads.

Heather: [00:22:46] Yeah, definitely. One of the things that I love is that mean because I have worked with many therapy practices, clinics and that is, you know, and we do SEO and that is the hardest part is that if you are working with a plumber. You know, they're a local company. So in other words, their clients are locally based. Same thing with a therapy clinic. The problem is, is that a plumber can ask for a reviews and they can. And that helps build so much traffic to their website. It's really easy. If they're building out reviews, then they are automatically building SEO and kind of moving up the ranks. But then as a therapist, you have that ethical code, that kind of that, that creates some issues. So I know for one of the things that I tell them is a workaround is to go and ask colleagues for reviews or to go and do a workshop or a webinar, and then they can ask for reviews for that, because obviously there's that ethical issue of asking a, you know, current or past client for a review, but as a coach, you don't have to worry about that. You know, you can do finish up the ten sessions or whatever and then say, hey, would you mind leaving me a review on Google, Facebook, social media, whatever. So that's definitely a benefit for helping your marketing, helping to drive additional traffic to your website. So I love that.

Jessica: [00:24:08] Yeah. One thing you just made me think of, I was talking to a therapist yesterday and she said, what if ten sessions isn't enough? Or as a therapist, I'm not sure how to tell them what results they'll get. I don't know if that falls in the category of misconceptions, but, you know, the therapists starting out thinking about coaching might be worried because we don't know how many sessions. And same thing here. I met with a couple just recently, and I said I would recommend we start with six months, which is 20 sessions. It's if you break that down, it's not every single week because we start to space them out. And I said, you know, I don't know how quickly that you're going to make the progress, but I think I do know that they're going to make some progress. Right? Obviously in six months. So I said to them, you know, we can talk about additional sessions afterwards. Same thing with the three months. So I think that just popped into my head because people might be saying like, are you guaranteeing a result in ten sessions? And I'm definitely not. I think, you know, I would say 50% of the time I offer, I recommend the six months. Sometimes I don't, sometimes I say, let's start with the three months and see how it goes. But I just popped into my head is yeah.

Heather: [00:25:12] I love that. I think it's a really good point to add in that it's like, okay, what if I, you know, say this package and, and then they I mean, you have to set up expectations, right? It's all about being clear and expectations as you go through this process. So we always like to leave that finish the podcast with some kind of takeaway or challenge. What would be your takeaway or challenge for any therapist who might be interested in in, you know, looking at this a little bit like kind of investigating a little bit more or, you know, or just wanting curious. Anyone who is curious what is your takeaway or challenge for them?

Jessica: [00:25:56] My takeaway for somebody, for somebody who's interested in coaching or maybe trying to leverage up, I would say that they could, if they wanted to expand their practice to possibly include an intensive. So that is a way that they could make some more money. I think you need to know how to do the breakthrough session. So I'll give give you some information. They can contact me on how to learn that protocol, because I think I would say the challenge could be, hey, what if you tried one of these sessions? But I think you need to know a little bit about that. If you're on insurance based, I would say start checking into and just maybe thinking about how you could leverage your time, because it's just been life changing for me to do it this way. And I really mean that, you know, genuinely, I'm not. I still one of the unique things about me being a therapist to coach and helping therapists is I'm still seeing my couples, you know, and I plan on doing that. I don't need to see more than 6 or 8 a week. And maybe that's even sounds like a lot for some people, but I think it could if I was, you know, having another whole thing going on. So, you know, I'm challenging myself with the challenge. Heather, forget what we talked about the last time we've done the challenge before.

Heather: [00:27:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think one of the things that you'd mentioned before is, is being open to charging more money and knowing what you're worth as well. Yeah. Again, there's that friction. I know that I have said many a time like you can help people and still, you know, have a very successful, thriving practice you, which means that you are making enough money to, you know, to take care of yourself and your family. They don't have to be like, there doesn't have to be friction there.

Jessica: [00:27:49] Yeah, we could challenge people. I think this is a very reasonable challenge for coming up towards the end of the year when they when they hear this, it'll be the beginning of the year, possibly. Hey, what if you up your fee? You know, I was doing $10 a year until I started doing the coaching. So I think, what if you challenge yourself in the new year for private pay clients to go up $10?

Heather: [00:28:09] Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So let's hear about your business. Let's take a second. Let's plug your business. Tell us all about it.

Jessica: [00:28:19] Yeah. So I do have the local therapy. I have one therapist that works for me, so it's technically a therapy and coaching practice. I do that I know that we talked a little bit. You'd have to censor it and pardon my language. I did write what to do when you do give a beep. This is a road map to a happy relationship. This is available on Amazon. So that came out in March. When you don't have to see 20 plus clients a week, you can write a book. So I did that this year. And of course therapist to coach is therapists with an S the number two coach. And they can find me on Instagram and they can look up the course that I run, which shows how to go through the breakthrough session and listen. Anybody who is a coach or are thinking about a coach coach thinking about coaching could do that course. I do specifically help therapists because we have, you know, to to know how to do some things. You know, we need to protect our license and those things. So that's included in the therapist coach launch.

Heather: [00:29:24] Awesome. Thank you so much. And I like that you added the natural beat for us.

Jessica: [00:29:29] I did actually I did, rather than having you to beep it out later.

Heather: [00:29:34] Oh that's awesome. Thank you so very much for being on the show, Jessica. Hey everyone. Thank you guys for listening to another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. Happy marketing y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or Therapy Marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing y'all!

Heather: [00:01:42] Why is it important to be a guide in my marketing? How do I position myself as a guide in my marketing, all of those things? Um, so first off, he says, when we position our customer as the hero and ourselves as the guide, we will be recognized as a trusted resource to help them overcome their challenges. Positioning the customer as the hero in the story is more than just good manners. It's also good business. Now, I've seen time and time again when businesses because honestly, you don't know. They don't know better. So when they write content for their website or social media posts or whatever they're writing a blog post is that they will start to talk about themselves too much. Um, my very blunt. I guess, you know, explanation is nobody cares about your business. Or maybe I should say they only care about your business in relation to how it's going to help them solve a solution grow. Um, you know, in some way. So if your business is not talking about if you are not positioning your business in a way that is going to help them solve their problem, they don't care about it. They don't. They really don't. And maybe that's offensive. Maybe. But that's like the blunt truth of the matter is that nobody cares that I run therapy marketing solutions. You know, that helps. That's a marketing business. Nobody cares that I have that marketing business.

Heather: [00:03:27] What they do care about is how my marketing business is going to help them grow their clinic or their practice. That's the thing that they care about. And that's why it's important to position yourself as the guide. For me to position myself as the guide is because I have some piece of knowledge or something that they are seeking and need help with. The same goes true. Rings true for all of your. I mean, when you really boil it down to therapy or, you know, whatever kind of therapy someone is, is seeking and looking for is you have something they need that they are desperately, possibly desperately searching for answers. Nobody does anything in marketing without a problem first. And so they have a problem. Your services are the solution to the problem, and when you position your services, your business as the solution to the problem, they are going to be excited to work with you and they are going to be like, sign me up now, let's talk. Let's where can I, you know, where can I schedule an appointment kind of thing? So, um. Again, it comes back down to that Luke Skywalker and and Yoda is Yoda the. Is he the main character of the story in Star Wars? No, no he's not. He's a secondary character and he is brought in only to help Luke move like, grow and develop into the the hero that he needs to be. And I know we're talking about movies and stuff like that, but we could look at any movie, at least any well-made movie, and we will see where there has been some kind of guide that has helped them to to grow and develop and to give them the tools that they need.

Heather: [00:05:27] And again, same thing comes from marketing. Same thing goes for your business. When you set yourself up as a guide that and and not the hero, you are able to better serve your clients. So some of the things, some of the mistakes I see out there is, for one, I always pick on the bio page the about your bio when you go to the bout page and you see your bio on there and and you talk about, well, I have a PhD from university and um, and I've been doing this for 27 years. And then I went and got a certification in Y. And on the weekends I like going camping and walking with my dog. So, I mean, I think it's great that you like camping and walking with your dog and and that there might be a place to add that little I know, I know why I understand why people put that in their bio. They put that in their bio because they want people. They want to be relatable, right? They want someone to be like, oh, hey, I like camping and I like my dog. Oh my gosh, we have something in common. There's some commonality. Let's talk.

Heather: [00:06:47] Um, and and it's important, especially as a therapist, someone in the allied health professional that you show that you have authority by saying, I have done a Y and Z schooling, training, certification. Et cetera, et cetera. Like I understand why those are important or those are important, but it's in the way that we talk about it. That is really how we position ourselves as either a hero or a guide. If we want to. The example I gave was obviously positioning yourself as the hero. It's talking about yourself. How you would position yourself as a guide is to then say. Um, so start with a problem. For many individuals, they struggle with anxiety. I like to use the anxiety example because it's just easy to think of. It's one thing, right? So many individuals struggle with anxiety in their day to day life. I have been, you know, by in the last 20 years I have worked with, you know. Thousands of individuals and help to give them the techniques and the tools to. To cope with their anxiety. So do you see how that's different? I'm talking about your problem. I'm talking. Or their problem? I'm talking about how you come in to help with their problem, but you're still able to slip in the authority. Like. Like, yeah, I got the training, I got the years. I know what I'm talking about. I can help you. Um. Another thing that I see, another example that I see is for people to just start talking on their home page about like, yeah, I've been doing this for 20 years or I, I like to help individuals.

Heather: [00:08:50] The word that keeps that I don't know if you keep hearing is I. I. Oddly enough, I say that you need to try to to drop the word I from from any and all of your marketing and and say we or not we but but to use different words, there are ways to say what you do without saying I don't start a sentence off with I. That's what I always try to avoid is never start a sentence with I. Instead talk about the solution. Positioning yourself as a solution. Position your company as a solution. Position your services as a solution. Um, going back to that anxiety example, if you list off that you help individuals with anxiety and then you go into again, many individuals struggle with anxiety in their day to day life, or many individuals struggle with anxiety that impacts their day to day life. Through therapy. Um, through or you say through, you know, x, Y and Z. Therapy techniques. We are able to help you. To find. You know, to find. Techniques and strategies and tools to to live a fuller life. So, um, do you see that? I said, I didn't say I help you with therapy. You say through therapy. So then you're positioning therapy as or you say through. You know, our through services, through anxiety counseling or through counseling.

Heather: [00:10:45] So that gives you the opportunity to not start with I if nobody you know, like again, it's that same idea I, I we want to see how often we can drop I and instead talk about them and talk about their problem the solution that and then position yourself the guide as someone who can help them to solve their problems. Someone who can help them to find the answers to their problem almost through like a you know, I'm here as a way to guide you through this struggle. Um, when you do that, what is the benefit of doing that? For one thing, there's two different things. Again, you know, going back to that quote by Donald Miller, you set yourself up as a trusted resource. So you give yourself authority by saying that. So you're bringing authority. But then also you can often bring empathy to the situation. So not only do they know that you know how to help them, but they're like, wow, they they understand what I'm going through so they can a help me and B they can, you know, empathize with the struggle that I'm having. They, they see that I, I often avoid social situations because of my anxiety or whatever. So. When you. Use this in all of your marketing people are going to it's going to be relatable to them. They're going to understand it. There's going to be something because obviously you're starting off with this problem. And they were like wow.

Heather: [00:12:27] They get me for that. That speaks to me. It resonates with them. So I don't know who said the quote, but a quote that I heard that was really great, says brands that position themselves. Sorry, brands that position themselves as heroes unknowingly compete with their potential customers. You're competing for attention. You are not top billing in their life. They are looking for answers. They are top billing. They're trying to solve their problems. They want to know how to fix their issue, or their struggle or their challenge. And you, when you position yourself as that guide, you help them to solve that problem. Okay guys. So I'll always like to to leave with a challenge or some kind of take away. So my challenge this week is for you to go and review your website. And look how many times you start a sentence off with I and see if you can rework that sentence, rework that paragraph or that section to start off with the problem. And then you talk about how your services can help them. So remove the I from your content. That is my challenge to you. And you definitely got to be creative. I mean it, you know, sometimes it takes me three, five, ten tries to be like, okay, this is the right way to say it. Um, and that really mean the idea behind that is that words matter, words make an impact. Although the design of your website is is great, obviously you have to have traffic on your website. It's the words that you are saying on your website that matter. And when you position yourself as a guide in your in your content and not the hero, they it's going to resonate with your ideal clients. So this is another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. Happy marketing you all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or Therapy Marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Sheri: [00:00:56] Hey, thank you Heather, I'm excited to be here. We've been looking forward to this. Ways to talk about helping our clients, talking about different ideas and just kind of throwing things out there, talking about things that we think about, but then go to the back of our minds and like, oh, why didn't I think of that? I've been thinking about it in the back of mind, but now I want to do it. Yeah.

Heather: [00:01:19] Yeah. And and really the idea Sherri and I had a great conversation when we were brainstorming this idea. And so I'm excited to share all of the kind of the. Oh, did I lose internet? Well, you're still there. Okay, I'm still here. Yeah. So one second. I'm sorry. We're going to have to kind of launch back into that. All of a sudden everything just went away and I'm like, what's going on? Okay, so, um. Since we're only, like a minute into it. I just want to. Let's just start it over. Okay. Okay. Welcome everyone to another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. I am excited to have you guys here today. We have a great topic and with us. So our topic we're going to be talking about creating value for your clients. And I have Sherri Colaluca from Colaluca marketing on with me today and welcome Sherri.

Sheri: [00:02:26] Hi Heather, great to be here. I'm excited to talk about ideas and share thoughts and kind of just talk about how we can add more value to our clients, how they can add more, more value to their clients. So anyway, I'm excited about it. And starting to kind of put all these topics out there and see if we can help someone else and help their clients and just kind of brainstorm and put ideas out there.

Heather: [00:02:50] Yeah. And when Sherri and I met originally to kind of brainstorm ideas for this podcast got, I got so excited, I got to tell you that it was a great conversation. Um, and so I was like, we got to do this. We got to get this podcast recorded because I just feel like there's so many little tidbits and things that sometimes we miss or don't or don't even think about that can bring value to our clients. It's that it's those little extra things. So first off, I want to talk a little bit about Colaluca marketing and what you do. Um, just so that people have just some background knowledge about you. Sherri.

Sheri: [00:03:34] So I've kind of been in the sales and marketing field for almost my entire life. Um, and I kind of fell into the medical medical marketing piece, um, had a friend that had a consulting company that was basically an attorney and a CFO. They had no idea what marketing or business development did. They just say, we know we need someone, so come help us. So I did so we you know, I provided the marketing, um, piece of their consulting companies, which dealt solely with medical practices. And so I was with them for almost three years. But the only piece that seemed to be growing was my piece. So in January of 2022, I spun off Colaluca marketing that just solely focuses on, um, marketing for for medical practices. And we deal with independents that want to compete with the big the big boys. And so we by offering our services to them, we get them to be able to be, um, have a presence, you know, get their the name of their practice out there, get what they offer to patients out there. And we're always looking for different ways to make add value to their patients, add value to their clinic, their practice. So that's a little bit, you know, in its simplest place, we are basically our job is to bring patients in the door and keep them there. Yeah. So that's really what we do. And always looking for different ways to do that. Because I think post pandemic we've had challenges. There's you know the medical industry was hit really hard. The pandemic was very hard on that on that industry. So you know absolutely well.

Heather: [00:05:19] And a couple things first off is when you're, like you said, competing with the big boys, one of the big differentiators is that value that you create as an independent clinic or practice. And so value is, is probably somewhat their bread and butter. Like they have to show that value because, you know, as we all know, when we go to some huge clinic or hospital or, you know, franchise, whatever, sometimes we get lost in you.

Sheri: [00:05:50] Just, you know, and that's something that people don't realize. It's like, well, I'm just going to these big name ones. But, you know, they those doctors don't always have 100% control of how they treat the patient. They are pretty much regimented by the system who they can send patients out to. All that stuff's controlled when you're you're dealing with some of the bigger services. Whereas when you have an independent, they have complete control of how they want to treat their patients, how long they want to see their patients, who they want to refer their patient out to. So there is a really big upside in these smaller, independent practices. And that's my job. And my team's job is to really emphasize that.

Heather: [00:06:34] And you talked about Covid and really mean the medical field was kind of in a in survival mode during that time. Yes. And so like anything, when we're in survival mode for an extended period of time, sometimes some of that value gets is forgotten, right? Like all the traction we were making pre-COVID. Some of that gets put by the wayside because we're like, we're just trying to help people. We're just trying to get people in, in and out. Adore, you know, keep like, keep people healthy, all of that kind of stuff. And so now that we've kind of emerged on top or on the other side of this, now it's time to be like, okay, let's, let's we need to look at this value side again. We need to really put the focus and value well.

Sheri: [00:07:19] And I think the other challenge is so many people like got out of the medical field. So many of your entry level positions, whether it's your medical assistants, your front desk, those people, they went to other industries. So there is so much volatility in those positions that they're constantly changing. And it becomes a challenge to maintain these. You know, I think in every sector of their they have such a challenge keeping keeping keeping employees. And so you know I think that's another thing that we look at. How do we how do we incentivize our employees. How do we you know, because it's not just money anymore. Because if it's if it's only money, they're just they're not going to stay. They'll find someone else who's going to pay another dollar an hour and they'll find it and they'll leave three months later. So there's got to be some other ways that we keep those employees happy, which in turn keeps our patients happy, which is a little bit of a tangent, but it all goes it goes into like marketing to your employees. You know, it's that internal marketing to keep those people happy.

Heather: [00:08:31] Well, and I love that you brought that up because in all honesty, you know, we create these processes. We we add in these these value, this value to these processes. But when you have a high turnover of employees, your processes kind of get pushed by the wayside or you're having to continuously reteach it. And so it never really is put forth like that. It's you can't really show that value, because all of a sudden you're having to teach a new employee that, okay, well, we do this step and that step. And so having your front office staff, I mean, they're one of the big ways that we create value and how they greet people and how they work with, um, with the patients or the clients and invoicing and all of those areas, even just the setup and the overall feel when someone walks into a clinic, that is the first person they see and that, I mean, they are huge in creating value. They're a huge part of that. And so when we have turnover or we just are having, you know, struggling to get people in our office to work or to have the right people in our office working, then that kind of hurts the value as well.

Sheri: [00:09:52] Correct? I mean, and that's I think sometimes, you know, physicians, providers undervalue what a big deal that first impression, whether it be on the phone, whether it be when they walk in that office, it is a huge piece because, you know, you and I, we can drive patients to those practices all day long. But if the experience is not good, the patients don't get called back. They don't feel heard when they get there, they're not going to stay. And then that whoever sent them to us probably is not going to send anyone else back. If this is the experience. So that, you know, that first, first encounter is just so very important.

Heather: [00:10:35] Absolutely, absolutely. I've had personal experience, and I'm sure that we all have where we have felt very welcomed the moment that we walked in the door or that we called. And then we've also had those experiences where you have that cantankerous, like, you know, person on the phone or at the front door and you're like, oh, I don't really feel welcomed. It's, you know, and that really sets the tone from the get go. So having the right person in, you know who. Welcomes people, whether by phone or in person, makes a huge, huge impact on the value that you bring your clients. Yes.

Sheri: [00:11:14] And that was something that we did with one of our clients just to further get them. If they we did a Google review of course, campaign that everyone does. But if their name was mentioned in that review, they got entered into a drawing to win. Like I think it was a gift card, like a $100 gift card to somewhere or something like that, just to kind of incentivize them to give that good service, that good, you know, um, and to reward it to, to reward that great behavior and reward, you know. So and we did we did have some really good results just kind of making. Yes, we'd like you to do your job, but but we want to really say you're doing your job. Great. And so we did do some of those incentives as far as like an internal, you know, marketing campaign.

Heather: [00:12:07] Yeah, absolutely. Um, and that that's great for just keeping the energy up in the office and things like that. One of the other ways that we had discussed about creating value is really reimagining the business, reimagining their business, and looking for additional ways to create value. And what I mean by that is that just because it's always been done that way, doesn't mean it always needs to be done that way. So looking at it from different angles, maybe thinking out of the box and saying, well, what if we did this? What if we did that? Not only does it create value, but it could be a big differentiator for for the business as well.

Sheri: [00:12:46] And just, you know, that kind of goes the same thing with like internal marketing. You know, how many of your patients don't know what other services that you might offer? Are you are you getting that information out to all your current the patients that are already coming to you? Could could you get another appointment from them that they would normally not come in for? Um, I know like one of our clients is a chiropractic group and they were one of the patients were being seen for like lower back pain or something. And he was like, yeah, I've got to take my wife to the doctor. She's been having hip pain and they're like, you know, we could help her, right? And but it didn't even occur to the patient that they treat hip pain. They just were under the perception, I'm coming for back pain. That's what a chiropractic group does. They just deal with back pain. Well that's not the case. So, you know, putting on different kind of internal campaigns that go out, whether it's email or text or to those current patients like, hey, you know, are you suffering from knee pain? Are you suffering from shoulder pain? We can help you. You know, let us, let us, let us look at you. Let's see what's going on. So yeah, just a way of addressing another. You've got this patient base. How can you expand on it?

Heather: [00:14:03] Absolutely, absolutely. You know, it's I think it's pretty common for, for businesses to, to miss that. They're like they just assume that everyone knows every service that they, they provide and offer. Um, and but in reality that's not true. That's not the case. They probably came to you for one distinct purpose. And outside of that, they're not even thinking of the other ways that they could, you know, perhaps work with you. I had an SLP speech language pathologist client who, you know, they were known for articulation and for language, but no one knew that. They even did like oral facial myofunctional disorders. So myotherapy. And so really, they did a huge campaign in letting everyone know, not only through internal emails, like sending emails through, uh, you know, to current clients, but then also social media really getting that word out, even like brochures within the office, kind of just doing this blast like, hey guys, by the way, and whether it's a it's something that you're currently doing or if it's a new service that you're offering, you really need to push that awareness on on the different services that you that your service or that your clinic provides.

Sheri: [00:15:26] Yeah, definitely. And just like you said, it's the assumption that, oh, everyone knows what we're doing. No, they came to you for a purpose. They're not necessarily knowing everything. You know, all the services you got, they don't necessarily know.

Heather: [00:15:39] Yeah, absolutely. And you would hate to lose. A current client who absolutely probably loves you to someone else just because they aren't aware that you even provide the additional services. Exactly. Yeah. So I would say that, you know, probably at least once a year, maybe twice a year that you, you know, are throwing that out there. Be like, hey, by the way, in case you didn't know, because clientele is always changing and shifting and things like that. So you want to make sure that everyone is aware of of all the services that you provide.

Sheri: [00:16:15] That's almost could be like a monthly campaign too. Yeah. Like depending on how many different services you offer, you know, um, you know, it's it's, you know, obviously like in primary care, you know, is it is it flu season. Is it that flu shot. Is it, you know, vaccines. Is it you know, school school physicals. You know, just different things that, you know come up that, you know, just reminder you know, because it's also the reminder is like oh yes I need to get that done. And so yeah.

Heather: [00:16:46] And there's there is a lot of seasonal campaigns, like you said at the beginning of the school year, I know that I'm trying to get my kids, you know, physicals, sports physicals done so they can play sports at school. And, and then once, you know, around October, November, I mean, unless your kid has the flu, sometimes you don't think about it. And then they're like, hey, by the way, get your flu shot. Oh yeah. That's right. And and so that's one of those that you want to look at your business, whatever industry you are in and say, okay, are there times seasonally that make sense to to remind people not only, hey, by the way, it's time to get your flu shot, but also it reminds them that you provide that service. So it's kind of a twofold. Correct.

Sheri: [00:17:32] And even like maybe some of the other ones that maybe are a little more rare that you're doing. And yeah, I think it's just looking at your offerings and looking at timings of, you know, hey, this is a little slower time of the year. Well, in July, can we start doing school physicals instead of waiting till the end of August when everyone's scrambling to do them? Can we promote that July 1st and get some of that business to alleviate when everyone starts going crazy? So also looking at timing of things and.

Heather: [00:17:59] That would that would be huge for your front office. I mean, you know, because they know they get those calls 3 to 3 weeks before school starts where there's a mad rush and it's like, oh my gosh, I forgot the physical. And so that helps them too. It'll help with creating just, you know, a more peaceful environment at work and chaos. So looking ahead and saying, like you said, if you know it's going to be crazy in August, maybe you start pushing people at the end of June. July. Yeah, I know with like physicals, you can get them as soon as the last school year is over. Right? So I mean, as of June, July, you could really get a physical. You don't have to wait till August for the sports physical. So just being aware of what things look like. Um, also with that being said, that can really help with seasonal times in your business that are a little bit slower. Exactly. You know, I've heard from a lot of people July is a slow.

Sheri: [00:19:00] Month for people.

Heather: [00:19:01] July, January I've heard of people because everyone's, you know, insurance starts over and and so January will tend to be a little bit slower. So knowing that in advance, that's when you can make some of those pushes to, to help with those quieter. Yes.

Sheri: [00:19:20] Which kind of goes with something that you and I were talking about before we started this. It's keeping you know, what we do. It's keeping that client funnel full. Well, it's no different for a practice, you know, it's knowing, keeping that patient volume at some kind of level, knowing the ebbs and flows and keeping the ideas that, okay, these are notoriously slower months. What can I do? What service can I offer at these times, and how can I promote it so that these times maybe aren't as slow as they've been in the past?

Heather: [00:19:51] Yeah, I love that. I love the idea of what services can I push during this time. Maybe it is one of your lesser known services that you're like, you know what, really, really going to make a drive for this and get the word out because this could be something that that doesn't affect the season, you know, the seasons or the months or the periods that are a little bit slower. And with that, with keeping your funnel full. There's also this idea of continuously networking. Yes. Um, I think.

Sheri: [00:20:24] As business owners, you know, we get busy, we have a full book of clients. Things are going well. Well, you know, projects and clients, you know, go to different sources or wherever. And then all of a sudden you realize, oh, my funnel is not very full right now. And, you know, depending on how. All your sales cycle is. And you know, we're talking you know, it could be mean hours is probably, you know, 6 to 8 weeks. But it can go up to just like you said, we have one that will probably start in another year. So like you said, you had a client in a funnel for a year, but it's keeping the clients in there and keeping touch with them, revisiting, you know, revisited another client that supposedly wants to take us on before the end of the year. But it's also balancing because we do have limited resources. We can only take on so many clients at once. So it's balancing that time of, you know, when they're ready and when we have availability and then keeping that cycle going. Yeah. And it's that consistently, you know, getting, getting, getting information out about your services that you offer and making sure that people still know what you're what you're offering. No different. You know, kind of that our slow periods, we we do a little bit more. But remembering to do them at the busy periods to, to make up for when the slow periods come in.

Heather: [00:21:48] Yeah. So often I mean think it's just human nature when you're busy, you're busy. And so the things that you have to focus on top priority, like what's right in front of you and, and often let all those other things kind of, you know, go to the corners of our mind or the on the back burner. And, but really, we need to keep that ball rolling at all times, because if not, then all of a sudden we're like, well, we've been kind of slow, like the marketing you do for today or the networking or the what? The outreach that you do for today isn't for today. It's for tomorrow. Right? Everything that we are doing is for the future. And so if you want your your funnel to be full, if you want that sales cycle to, you know, to continuously be bringing in more clients than you need to be continuously doing the work. Yes. And it can be a struggle.

Sheri: [00:22:49] Yeah. Because we get it. Yeah. It's hard. I mean, it definitely happened to us and we are feeling the ramifications of it too, because, you know, we were just scrambling to keep everything, all the balls in the air. So the ball that dropped was you know, but then, you know, then you face it that okay, we're a little bit slower than we'd like to be. So now we've got to get keep that ball rolling and something that, you know, I had my talk to my team about, it's like, listen, we have got to be even when we're busy at 1 to 2 networking events, coffees, happy hours, whatever. Because they're usually you can work those work after your normal client hours. So it's trying fitting 1 or 2 a month in there. We just really have to make that a priority and keeping in touch with them. And um, and also tracking we, we we had kind of probably to my fault because I think I can remember everything. And so we've actually started track. We track everything we do for our clients, but we don't necessarily track everything we do that brings us clients. And so we start tracking, okay, who are all our leads that we have had, whether they have turned into anything or not of we need to least be tracking those and, you know, and figuring out, well, why didn't they go with us? Was it a financial thing? Was did they choose someone else? Did they bring someone in house kind of just keeping all that information and tracking it more? We have not as a as a group, as a team been doing that. So that's something that we're like, okay, we need to do this. We need to see okay, who, who who are we talking to, who seems to be interested in our services and are they going with us? Is it a not now, not maybe tomorrow, those types of things.

Heather: [00:24:41] Yeah. And really 1 to 2 events is per month is not that much. And like you said, it can be done after hours. Um, something else that's really helpful is making sure that you have automated emails going out, making sure that you have, even if it's just 1 to 2 emails a month, something needs to be going out for that internal side. And the external marketing.

Sheri: [00:25:03] Yes, absolutely.

Heather: [00:25:06] And that's really an easy way. When things are busy, you already have it in place, it's automated, it's ready to go. And so it's it's for, you know, like done and forgotten. Right. Um, and so I loved any time I can give someone something automated where it's like, this is automatically done, you don't have to worry about it. It's set up. And now, you know, you can go about and continue working. That is is a huge value to to clients, to, you know, to my clients because they get busy there. As a business owners, we wear a lot of different hats. We're doing a lot of different things. And so it might be that. You know, we are seeing they're seeing clients or patients and then they have a ton going on, like they're having to work through some like bookkeeping stuff or having to work through this. And so, you know, like I said, the ebbs and flows. So if they're able to have something automated, at least they're still continuing the contact. They're still continuing to warm relationships, reminding people they exist. That's a huge part of marketing. Like, hey, we're still here. Yes. Um, and it's it's off their plate.

Sheri: [00:26:19] Yes, absolutely.

Heather: [00:26:21] Yeah. Um, so let's talk about every episode. We always have some kind of take away, excuse me, take away or challenge to really get people, you know, here's your next step. And so what can we do? What can they do as a possible challenge or takeaway?

Sheri: [00:26:42] Well, I do think that it is putting something on your calendar. I think it is whether you're going to schedule, just like I said, you're going to schedule an email, like you said, an email that goes out at least once a month that keeps your clients patients informed about what's going on. You schedule a time that, okay, I'm going to go ahead and block my schedule on, you know, the third Wednesday of every month, I'm going to put some kind of networking thing on my calendar because you mean if anyone is like me, if it's on my calendar, I make it happen and something doesn't get in the way, because if it's not on the calendar, you know, things just fill in and then it doesn't happen. And so I think it's just making the commitment to your self, to your patients, to your clients make the commitment to schedule that and do it. And don't let something else override it, which is also hard to do. So it's that continuing continuing to service your current, you know, your current clients, your current patients, and then also reaching out to the potentials that maybe aren't there yet.

Heather: [00:27:53] Yeah. And I think something that you said is put it on your schedule and commit to doing it. Yes. You know, if you've got I'm going to spend 30 minutes or an hour once a month and I'm going to really focus in on this. Don't let other things get in the way of that. I've seen where some of my clients they'll do every Friday, just an hour long with, you know, the owner and like those that need to be there in a meeting. And they just kind of whether it's once a week, every two weeks, once a month, they sit down, they map out all their marketing out for the next couple months or so. They're always looking forward and moving forward. And and those meetings happen no matter what. And that's I mean, just making sure that other things don't get in the way of that is important.

Sheri: [00:28:40] Well, and just figuring out being okay, what's what's working right now, you know, because we know that what worked, you know, six months ago may not be working now. So that's the other thing. It's like, let's look at what is working. What are we seeing the benefit of what efforts are really working for us right now.

Heather: [00:28:57] And that's where that tracking comes in.

Sheri: [00:29:00] And.

Heather: [00:29:01] Are coming in through phone calls. Then you or, you know, I mean, even just as simple as having it on your intake form. How did you hear about us? Yes. That and then go back and actually look at it. That's yes, I know it's hard to like, oh yeah, we need to to kind of keep a tally as to where everyone is coming from so that we know what is working, where we should put our efforts 100%.

Sheri: [00:29:24] And the other thing, the one the thing that we love is self referrals. It's like there's no such thing as a self referral because you found out about us from somewhere, whether you googled it, whether you talked to a friend, there was someone that told you about us. You did.

Heather: [00:29:40] You heard about it from somewhere?

Sheri: [00:29:42] Yes.

Heather: [00:29:45] Well, Sherry, how can they find out more information about your services?

Sheri: [00:29:50] Yes. So we are predominantly in the DFW area, Dallas Fort Worth. We do have a website called Luka marketing.com. Um, visit us. We have Luka marketing, Instagram and Facebook. You can find out what we've been doing. We do are in the process of starting a campaign that we can facilitate outside of the DFW. We are hoping to launch that in 2024, so definitely could possibly benefit practices that are outside of our our footprint right now. So yeah, always love to help people out. If they have questions, you know, just email me Sherry at Luka Marketing.com and we'd love to talk.

Heather: [00:30:31] Yeah. Thank you so much for being here. I think it's been a great conversation.

Sheri: [00:30:35] Me yeah.

Heather: [00:30:37] And and what I always tell, you know, anyone who listens to the podcast, I'm like, just take a couple things like don't we can easily be overwhelmed by everything. You're like, okay, I'm supposed to be doing this. Just be doing that. Just take 1 or 2 things that, you know, little tidbits. If you take one thing from this and then move forward in your marketing just little by little, it's what you do every day that builds your marketing. Absolutely. So thank you so much for being here. And thank you for listening. Happy marketing y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com. Harm or therapy marketing Solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Heather: [00:01:49] So we need to be talking about problems here guys. Nobody does anything. I don't buy a pair of shoes, I don't buy food. I don't buy anything. I don't do anything unless I first have a problem. So what this really means, you know, and let's talk about it. Let's talk about on surface level. So if I buy a new pair of shoes it could be a cute pair of boots. It could be, you know, the most impractical pair of shoes ever. And the reason why I'm buying them is maybe because I have an outfit that nothing else, none of my shoes look good with. That's my problem. And these amazing shoes are solving my problem. So that's what I mean by talking about positioning your business to talk about the problems your clients are facing and how you can solve it. So there's a couple of different things you need to think about and be aware of when you're talking about problems and how you solve it. The first one really is, is that you never want to to oversell. If someone has, especially within the Allied. Health practices. And you know, you if someone has a debilitating disease or some kind of disease, you will not be able to probably solve it. If it is, if there is no cure for it. Right? So we always have to be very conscious of the problem that we solve. I cannot tell you that if I am, if I am helping you with my with your marketing, that I am going to solve world hunger, right? They just don't fit.

Heather: [00:03:39] So the problem that you're talking about, the solution that you bring forth, has to solve the problem. It has to be in direct relationship to the problem. So that's the one big thing is, is the solution to the problem, the end result, what life looks like afterwards. Does that is that actually solving the problem? Is that actually speaking to the problem? So that's the number one thing that you always want to be aware of. Make sure that you are solving the problem with a clear solution, a real solution, something that is actually tangible. I'm not tangible, but that's practical, right? Um, for example, if if you have a client that comes to see you because they have anxiety, you probably cannot solve their anxiety. They may have. If they have chronic anxiety, they may always have anxiety. Anxiety might be a part of their life. But can you give them tips? Tricks? Strategies for helping them to cope with their anxiety. Absolutely. Absolutely. So when we position ourselves in a way that solves their problem and improves their life, they're going to pay attention and they are going to say, oh my gosh, I need to talk to these people. I need to work with these people. Okay. So next thing that we always want to do is we want to make sure the problem is clear.

Heather: [00:05:37] We want to make sure that we're not solving. And with that I guess I should say we want to make sure that we're not solving too many problems. We want to let's solve one problem. For me, I have marketing solutions for therapy based practices. So the problem that I am solving is that you might need help with your marketing, or you might need direction with your marketing. And I help you with marketing solutions, whether that be that could be different things. It could be your website, it could be emails, it can be different services that I offer. But in the end, all of those are helping you with your marketing. Right. And so the problem is you need help with your marketing. I come with some with answers, with services that help you and solve a problem. Same thing is, you know, you might provide several different services within your business. Let's say you're a physical therapist. Um, you could provide service for someone who has an injury, a car accident, or just had surgery. Those are all different reasons why someone might come to you. But is the problem you're solving is helping them to get back to living a healthy life. Get back to. Being strong. Those are the problems that you're solving. So what you can say is you could say something like, you may have, you know, whether it be an injury, chronic pain or, um, or recovery from an operation or from surgery, whatever the reason is that you're that you're needing therapy, we can help you to live a stronger, healthier life or to have a body or to have to have your body.

Heather: [00:07:27] Um. To, to really, you know, have a healthier body. Something like that. So you're improving their life. It can be. But if you also work within a very specific niche. If you help someone with something that is very, very specific, you can get very. You can. The problem that you solve is going to be very specific as well. So those are kind of some of just the quick tidbits that you can think about. I know this episode is a quick one today, but this has been on my mind. Is solve the problem that your ideal client has and needs help with. If you can do that in your marketing, then you will have clients who are going to be fans, who will be amazed by you, who will be, who will do your marketing for you because they will be screaming from the rooftops that you are amazing. Um, so that's it for another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. Happy marketing y'all! We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or Therapy Marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Kim: [00:01:14] Thank you.

Heather: [00:01:15] I'm excited to have you here and to talk about telehealth and the benefits. The the, you know, get some tips and tricks, maybe learn everything that we can need to know to help us use it in our practices. So, um, so I want to talk just, I want to introduce you guys a little bit more. Let's talk a little bit about what you are doing. So tell me about your background. Kim. Do you want to go first?

Kim: [00:01:43] Yeah, I'll do that. Um, so I am a speech language pathologist. I've been practicing since 2010, and I was Todd's grad student, and in 2009 we had a pilot study that was kind of seeing if Telepractice was viable for working with children, with hearing loss. And so that was kind of my first dip in the waters for that. And then I through my career, I've worked in I worked for a private practice in North Carolina and then for a early intervention system here in Utah. And then when my husband got done with school and I was looking to go part time and be home with my kids more, I started looking at Telepractice again. And in 2016 I made the switch over and that is all I've done really since then.

Heather: [00:02:39] Yeah, that's great. I want to jump in a little bit more into your story or, you know, kind of just what you're doing. And I love that you said that you. You know, it's perfect. It's perfect for your situation. You said that you had moved from northern Utah to southern Utah, and, you know, you continued with the same clients. Nobody knew anything differently. Maybe a few days off. But other than that. 

Kim: [00:03:09] Yep, yep. I'd moved during the summer and saw my all my school kids the next year and they kind of like a little bit batted an eye at the fact that my background had changed. But really they didn't know anything. That was the only difference. Yep.

Heather: [00:03:25] And then it's a perfect situation for you that you were able to kind of do this from a part time basis and yet continue doing the work that you love. Yeah. So that's great, Todd. So tell us a little bit about what you're doing.

Todd: [00:03:44] Well where I am now, I'm a faculty member at the University of Akron as, as you know, and did, was with Kim many years ago at Utah State University when we started doing Telepractice there. And then I left Utah State in 2011 and have been at the University of Akron ever since. And as a part of my my role there is to train graduate students in speech language pathology. And we've had telepractice as a focus. Or our on campus clinic that we have speech and hearing clinic. And then since 2014, I've been going over and working with the center and the cochlear implant program at Akron Children's Hospital, and I'm able to take grad students with me on those days. And we are doing both in-person and clinic services as well as Telepractice. So they get a chance to to participate in both. So that's sort of. My little bio. Short bio.

Heather: [00:04:56] I love that you said that you have that you've incorporated Telepractice within, you know, this graduate studies program. So often I see where sometimes the schools are a little bit behind. And so, you know, that's not really serving. And so then when people graduate, they're kind of trying to figure things out quickly. And and I love that you've just really embraced this. This is what it is. You know, this is how you use it. I mean, how I mean, that's like really beneficial for them to walk out and have this knowledge and to feel confident that they know what they're doing.

Todd: [00:05:35] Well, my personal philosophy and and there are others who believe this, too. But what's always driven me is in terms of our graduate students, in speech language pathology, and to an extent as well, audiology, is that we want them to be trained for the world they're going to inherit, the world that they're going to be working in. And and that has always been sort of in the back of my mind is how how do we set these students up for success when they graduate? And and so they they need this experience before they have to, you know, go out there and find a position and start doing it or be expected to do it. And so that is something that Covid has taught, taught us a bit of, you know, people were were placed in, you know, or having to do telepractice without any training and feeling overwhelmed. We've heard, you know, going back to when we were at together with Tim at Utah State, we've always wanted our students to to be able to do this if it was a part of their job. And now we know through Covid and after Covid, so to speak, it's even more prevalent now than it was before. And so and even through that, that sort of the Covid situation that happened with the pandemic. I got feedback from a number of my former students who were saying to me, sending emails and things about, Thank goodness we got this training then because now I'm having to train other people and I'm now the leader in setting up our Telepractice program.

Heather: [00:07:23] So absolutely.

Todd: [00:07:24] So that was, you know, really nice to hear. So so I think it's very important that this be a part of our training programs.

Heather: [00:07:33] Yeah, I think that's I think that's great. So you guys actually launched Telepractice today in May of 2020. And if any of you guys, you know, remember, that was kind of at the height of everything. Yeah. Yes. Of Covid. And, um, I love that you kind of saw that need where you're like, we're a couple months into Covid things aren't you know? I mean, let's face it, when we all started Covid, we thought, we'll be back in two weeks. We all thought that. Yeah, like just two weeks precaution and go back and and it ended up being a little longer.

Todd: [00:08:10] Right.

Heather: [00:08:11] And so I love that you saw that need. And you said, Hey, this isn't going away. I mean, whether we're in Covid or not. Let's let's start talking about Telepractice and how we can help people.

Kim: [00:08:24] Yeah, I think we were both watching each other kind of jump around in different forums and try to put out fires and tell people like it's going to be okay, you can do this. And then Todd approached me and said, Hey, do you want to start a podcast? And as being, you know, feeling like it was an assignment from my professor, I said, yes. And then in, you know, true form of it being an assignment from my professor, he said, Oh, good. Now I want you to outline the first ten episodes.

Heather: [00:08:55] I just want to know, did you get an A?

Kim: [00:08:58] Did I get an A? Todd? Yes.

Todd: [00:09:00] Yes. I thought I'd stick with it for a while.

Kim: [00:09:03] Yeah. Yeah. So and that was three years ago. So and I think at some points we've thought that we might run out of people to talk to, but it hasn't happened yet. And we've had some great conversations with a lot of people that are, you know, have been doing this for a while or content creators or have discovered it or even just things that are, you know, related to and impact Telepractice.

Heather: [00:09:28] Mm hmm. Yeah. So let's talk about a little bit of that. What have you. You know, you've had a podcast for three years. You guys have been doing telehealth for quite a while. What are some of the things that you've learned through this journey?

Kim: [00:09:42] It's interesting. I still had a friend the other day that texted me and was like, I'm kind of thinking about going into Telepractice. Is that realistic for me to be able to do it? And I was like, Well, it's all I've done for the last seven years. So yes, I think it's realistic. So I still think there is that idea out there. Is it just something that we did during the pandemic and now we can drop it, or is it something that, you know, is viable long term? And it definitely is.

Heather: [00:10:09] Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. What are some of the pitfalls that you have either experienced or heard about from others in doing telehealth or, you know, having these services?

Todd: [00:10:23] I think, you know, for some people, I think if they're trying to reach more rural families, sometimes the you know, obviously you got to have a good Internet connection. And and unfortunately, we still don't have we still have areas in the country that doesn't that don't have wonderful broadband support. So you need that. And I think as people start to plan their telepractice practice or adding telepractice to their private practice, I think they they need to be comfortable with the technology, understanding what you do in person and how to translate that to more of a digital online setting. And and that takes some planning in the beginning if you're just starting to do that. And then they they also need really strong you know support for. What they're going to use and making sure that everything works. And because with any computer, any system or any platform, you're going to have bugs at some point. So how are you going to troubleshoot that at that moment in time? But aside, you know, most of those things you can usually deal with fairly straightforwardly. And what what we've seen now really since Covid is the sort of explosion of Telepractice companies and the expansion of many of these companies. And if you just go online and look at who's, you know, they're all looking for people because they can't fill positions and and they seem to be just growing by leaps and bounds in terms of expanding their services and going into different areas and doing lots of things. And so that further reinforces that Telepractice is working and and these companies are growing and they're. You know, developing new markets and they need more people who are trained.

Heather: [00:12:30] And then there's a need and a true desire from clients or patients. They want this. Um, because there's that, you know, it's. They don't have to travel. There's mean they can receive. Um. They can receive services from wherever they're at. I know that we've done speech therapy on vacation before. It's been great. Or as we're traveling or whatever. Um, so I think one of the things that it was interesting when we were talking right before this that Kim said is that if, if you think like thinking that tele, you know, health is the same exact as meeting in person that that's a huge pitfall. Do you want to talk about that a little bit more?

Kim: [00:13:16] Yeah, I think just you know, we use the same clinical skills as far as our clinical judgment and things that, you know, selecting materials is the same clinical judgment. But I think just if you're going in and thinking that it's just going to be the same, like maybe I'll just like show the same flashcards I would or, or do the same materials in the way that I would if I was in person. I think that you're going to find it difficult to keep kids attention and to really take advantage too, of all of the tools that are there for you on the platform and just thinking about like instead of and we've talked about this in presentations too, instead of just how can I do the same thing that I was if I was in person is how can I use this tool to go beyond and make it even better and do more than I would than if I was sitting in front of them?

Heather: [00:14:12] Yeah. Yeah. What are some of the tools and and kind of tips and tricks that you use, you know, doing telehealth being on that digital because it is very different. You know, I've got kids who've been in speech therapy and for years and, and honestly, it's been, you know, if they're just flashing up the flashcards on the screen, I mean, my kids are like, Yeah, okay, what's up there? You know? Yeah.

Todd: [00:14:38] Bad, bad.

Heather: [00:14:39] To keep interest. Yeah.

Todd: [00:14:41] Poorly trained at that point. Yeah. You realize who's who's done this for a while and who who's just starting out.

Kim: [00:14:47] Yeah, for sure. I really enjoyed with it Depends on the age of the kid. And I've done everything from preschoolers to seniors in high school. So it depends on the age of the person you're working with. But I for my younger kids, green screen has been awesome and that's something that I feel like really is one of those things that bumped up a lot more during the pandemic because lots of people started creating more green screens and thinking about how would we do this and keep kids engaged. So that's a great one. And with my older kids, I just think that, you know, having the whole Internet at your fingertips is kind of what I think about using because that's the world that they are living in as well. So I will often, like I use Newsela or Newsela a lot just to talk about current events and have that be a language activity. I will have my students screen share their screen. So if they're working on something like an English assignment and it's they need an outline, then you know, I'm walking them through doing it instead of them just watching me do it and then sending it to them when the session is over. And that depends on the level of kids. I've done both of those things, but I just think, you know, thinking about like, how can I use this technology in a different way and not just do the same things I would do in person?

Heather: [00:16:11] Yeah, I've seen some fun activities out there where they've got I mean, even just like a a virtual game board and you're moving through the game board as you work through the sounds and the words. So which I mean, it's very interactive. It can be interactive. I think that's the big.

Kim: [00:16:31] Yeah, yeah.

Todd: [00:16:33] Yeah, it can. It can be interactive and engaging and fun while you're working on very important things.

Kim: [00:16:41] Yeah.

Todd: [00:16:42] Holding the card up to the camera saying, what's this? Or say this, that. That's not going to cut it.

Kim: [00:16:49] Yeah, it wouldn't cut it in person either. So. Right. But I think I think people feel more limited when like, well, I can't get down and play with a kid. I can't pull out my toys. I think they feel more limited and that might be why they go back to things like flash cards and things like that. But there's so many tools, like you said, game boards. You know, I use YouTube a lot, like wordless videos, all of these things that are there. And our kids know that they're there. They're I mean, I feel like you're really your challenge is to be more entertaining than an iPad when you're doing Telepractice, Right?

Heather: [00:17:21] Very true. It really is true. I mean, you know, kids are used to YouTube. They're used to. All of the, you know, the apps, the games, all of that stuff. And so we really need to be speaking their language. Yep.

Todd: [00:17:37] Well, it's sort of digital literacy for the SLPs, right? You know, they need to know how to find this material and know which websites work well and how to how to use them.

Heather: [00:17:51] Yeah, that sounds like a course right there. Yeah.

Todd: [00:17:56] One other quick thing I wanted to just mention. Um, going back to what we're seeing right now in terms of Telepractice and a lot of individuals maybe launching a private practice or a complete just private practice using telepractice only not doing in-person, and that's that sort of work life balance. And I think that's what has come out of Covid as well. Mm hmm. Um, and how it's affected speech, language pathology, where people were saying I can be at home and provide these services and it gives me more flexibility with my children or, or, you know, I have more control over my day or whatever the case may be. And I think that has also really, really skyrocketed in terms of just popularity and people making that kind of decision and using Telepractice for that balance.

Heather: [00:18:50] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think there's so many pros to that. There is, you know, you have to be careful because I mean, I work from home, so I see the struggle of that work life balance and sometimes work seeping into all the other parts of my life because it is at home. So you definitely have to set up some some structure, some rules, some guidelines for yourself and saying, this is when I will be doing it, this is when I won't. These are, you know, this is what I'm willing to do and what I'm not willing to do and to make to ensure that there's that, um, that separation a little bit. Because if not, then all of a sudden, you know, 8:00 at night you're thinking about work and said.

Kim: [00:19:36] Yep. Well, I think.

Todd: [00:19:38] Kim, you had a story about someone who put a cloth over the computer or something like that.

Kim: [00:19:43] Yeah. Yeah, I, I had a it was one of those social workers where I worked and I was talking to her about how to create that work life balance. And, you know, that's where some of the things that she mentioned that the only place for her desk was in her bedroom and just that that was like too much of like work is literally right there. So at the end of the day, she would take a sheet and put it over her desk to be like, okay, the day is dead. I'm creating a mental and physical separation between me and and work.

Heather: [00:20:14] Yeah, I love that. I think that's great. So I want to talk a little bit about some of the benefits of, of doing telehealth. One obviously we talked about is that wide reach that you're able to serve a larger audience, which is an actual. Another benefit is that if you you can live anywhere you want. This is the great part about being online now is that we have that flexibility to if we want to live in small town USA, we can still help people and still do the work that we love.

Kim: [00:20:50] Right? Yeah. And that's like I moved in the middle of, you know, all of my career with Telepractice and kept, you know, some of the same schools and clients and everything. When I moved and it was a little hard because I didn't have a reason to tell my husband we couldn't move because I wasn't like, but we can't leave my job because my job came with me. So. So I think that's a big benefit. And when I was starting, I had worked mostly in the schools, but when I was starting about seeing, thinking about seeing private clients, I was I was in a small town and I wasn't sure if I could get a basis of people that would be interested and have the means to pay for the services and things like that. So knowing that I could. Kind of cast a wider net, so to speak, into any of the places that I was licensed in. And I ended up one of my first online clients was actually in California, and I'm in Utah. I still am not quite sure how they found me, but I guess that was that's not a great marketing advertisement. I don't know how they found is maybe it is, but just in like I think I had just put it out on some like mom groups or something like that on Facebook. And you know, that was someone who was two states away from me and stayed a client for many years. And I wouldn't. Have had that If it wouldn't have been for Telepractice. Yeah.

Heather: [00:22:25] Yeah. So it really is. It makes therapy accessible to those who might live in rural areas. Or even allows the the therapist to live in a rural area if they want. Sure. And one other thought that I had is that it allows those that need specialty services to find them. So instead of just saying, hey, this is the only. You know, SLP or audiologist or whatever in my area, and they might just be very general or broad services. But I need someone who who is an expert in this area because we're really struggling to get the care that we need that they're able to go out and find those people.

Kim: [00:23:13] Yeah, right. And another thing that I think people don't think about as much with Telepractice is it also connects SLPs to that expert SLP too, because I do think if we're always just like, Oh, well, they know everything about that, send them to them, then we're doing, you know, that's your choice as a provider. But I think that, you know, in those areas where it's like, okay, this keeps coming up, I think I need some training in that. It gives I don't think we always think about Telepractice giving us, giving us as SLPs access to other SLPs who have that knowledge too. And that can be a great way to do that.

Heather: [00:23:51] Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I've seen where the, you know, speech language. Kind of where things have started. I've seen a lot more specialties coming up and where know I work with stuttering or I work with Maya or I work with, um, uh, I one of the speech language pathologists for the clinic that we go to does cleft palates, and we're, they're able to offer those specialties. But I love that that thought that it also provides access for you as a therapist to, to gain additional training into helping your clients.

Todd: [00:24:31] Mhm. Exactly.

Heather: [00:24:33] Yeah. And it doesn't always have to be where you're consistently going all the time or I guess I should say not going, but where you're always doing telehealth, you know, Tom or Todd. Sorry. You had talked about hybrid. That hybrid could be an option as well.

Todd: [00:24:53] Yes. And I think there's lots of different situations. And sometimes, you know, parents who are a little reluctant to do telehealth, but maybe they are driving two hours each way to come see you then they you know, but they're kind of shy about, you know, technology and all that you can. You can sort of ease them into telepractice and that you could, you know, do some training on how to use the computer when they come in, you know, make sure they feel comfortable. And then. You can say, okay, you're going to come in weekly, but you know, this month but, you know, last week of the month, we're going to just do telehealth. You know, we're going to try to do telepractice and then you gradually get them in, you know, as they as they build their confidence and everything is working. Um, you can start to have more and more telepractice sessions versus in-person sessions if that's appropriate for the patient, for the child or whoever you're serving. And I think that's one of the things that I think, uh, sometimes we forget. Then as clinicians using both in-person and telepractice, we can really tailor the service delivery to meet the needs of the family or the child. And it may not be all one or the other. It's it could be that combination of the two. And that's why I think, you know, going back to my my grad students, I want them to be able to move seamlessly between Telepractice and in-person if that's what is needed. Um, so that's, that's sort of my philosophy in that sense.

Todd: [00:26:40] But talking about getting to a specialist, I remember one of the families I ended up working with through Telepractice, they were driving about 2.5 hours to see a specialist in person, and they had a little boy. He was about two and a half maybe. Um, and had hearing loss and cochlear implants and, and she would say by the time I get to that that big hospital and get parked and get him in, he is in no mood to do, you know, another hour of just talking or listening or whatever, you know, and behavioral problems and all these other issues would come up. And she said, Could we do something with you? You know? And I said, Well, we'll give it a shot. And so we started connecting to them in their home and coaching mom on what to do and working with this little guy. And they loved it. You know, they were comfortable being in their home. He was comfortable with his toys. It didn't have to spend all that time on the road because that's you know, if you think about 2.5 hours up there an hour. So that's 3.5 hours, then 2.5 hours back home. And that's a full day for a one hour session. And it was just such a hardship for this family. And then Telepractice was like, you know, you know, a gift from the heavens that, you know, that would really change, really change their lives because they didn't have to plan on doing all that anymore. So it worked really well. And those and can work really well in those situations.

Heather: [00:28:16] One additional benefit is, you know, there's been times where where my child just has the sniffles and I don't necessarily want to share the sniffles with everyone in the clinic. So it's perfect for that situation where it's like, yeah, we've got a cold, we're not really sick, but but I don't want to bring them and I don't want them to miss it. So let's just jump on and do telehealth. So having that option available, um, is beneficial for the clients, but it's also beneficial for the clinics because then there's not those cancellations, because we all know that during cold and flu season, all of a sudden we're like, okay, we're having a drop in numbers and attendance and, and that, that helps to alleviate some of that.

Kim: [00:28:58] Yeah. And on the therapist side too, that, you know, when my kids have that same thing, the sniffles, I'm like, okay, you lay on the couch, I'm down the hall, we'll be good. Or when I've been sick, I think like the only times that I've called out of work, which probably, I don't know, isn't the greatest example of work life balance. But when I had Covid and when I had laryngitis and had no voice and that's about it, Otherwise, other than that, I'm like, okay, I'm just sitting at home. I'm not worried about being contagious to anyone. And I can I can finish this day of work, you know?

Heather: [00:29:33] Yeah, absolutely. So I want to talk a little bit more about where telehealth is going. Where do you guys see it going? Is this is something that you guys, you know, do day in and day out? You have a podcast. You talk to a lot of people who are doing it. Where do you see it going?

Kim: [00:29:52] Um, I think one of the biggest benefits that I saw in the pandemic and that I think will continue to grow is just that people I would go into like a continuing ed training and I would be the only person in the room who had ever done patellar practice or had ever even thought of Telepractice. So I was listening to trainings and things that didn't take me and what I was doing into consideration. So I, you know, kind of go up to the presenters after and say, How do you think this would work? And for Telepractice and they're like, I don't know. I've never even thought about that. So I think just everyone creating, you know, whether it be people creating assessments or people creating materials, that they just have that in mind. And I think that that opens it up a lot more to have more things that we have access to and not just that our have been adjusted for Telepractice but built from the get go with Telepractice. And that's something that I'm really excited to see more of.

Heather: [00:30:52] Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's great.

Todd: [00:30:56] Well, as we've touched on, I think a little bit is that we're going to see more and more telehealth and more and more technology based interventions going forward. I mean, we can we're talking about telehealth and telepractice, But, you know, once we get into, you know, virtual reality and augmented reality and AI and how all that is going to also impact service delivery, it's you know, it's it's just going to keep expanding and incorporating more and more aspects of of technology going forward. And I just saw yesterday we were talking and when we recorded our podcast this week, Amazon has now extended their telemedicine efforts into all 50 states. So now and and I haven't checked out exactly what they are providing through their telemedicine program, but now they're in all 50 states. And that was a big press release about that. And so you see some of these companies seeing the the possibilities, whether it's, you know, service delivery and or diagnostic processes or different things going on and different, you know, therapies being delivered through telemedicine or telehealth. More and more are going to be doing. Cvs has done some stuff and, you know, getting into it more and more. And so I think we've all seen those commercials, you know, uh, being here in northeast Ohio, we have the Cleveland Clinic about, you know, 45 minutes north and a big medical center, you know, constant ads of. See. You see someone today, you have a problem. Here's how we can do it. And so they can talk to probably a nurse practitioner who will triage what's going on and get that person scheduled to see someone. Um, so think more and more of this is going to happen as we go forward. And I think, um, we're going to just keep seeing more and more telemedicine and within speech-language pathology and audiology even more as we go forward there too.

Heather: [00:33:09] Yeah, definitely. That's very cool. I love that you're just seeing more accessibility. And then of course, you know, Kim, what you were talking about, the the idea that. Of creating something with telehealth in mind instead of just saying, Hey, this is how we could tweak it so that we could use it within the telehealth. I think that's I think that's going to be great to see where it goes with that. And I think it'll help therapy in the sense that it's just going to become more interactive, which is going to be I mean, like you said. You know, a lot of the especially if you're seeing children, I mean, they they use YouTube. They're using the apps. They know they know technology. And so in order to be at their level, their therapists need to be using some kind of technology as well. Yeah. So rather than say, okay, it's there and put it in its little box, let's just embrace it and say, what can we do with it? How can we use it? Right.

Todd: [00:34:18] Exactly.

Heather: [00:34:19] So one of the things we kind of touched on from a marketing standpoint is that wide reach that you're able to service or, you know, provide a service to clients within a greater area. And and I want to circle back to that a little bit more, you know, because this is a marketing podcast. So and really, you know, in talking about telehealth, it's giving us a lot of good ideas that people can use telehealth within their business, but this can be a viable part of the services they provide. But also it can be helpful from a marketing standpoint. You know, obviously we got to let people know that if you provide telehealth, make sure they they know and they understand that. One of the other things that you'd mentioned is that before Covid, that there really wasn't that that those who were doing telehealth kind of struggled to get insurance companies to pay for it. And since Covid, that's been a positive benefit from there is that tele health can be billed just like any other insurance. Um, yes. Yeah. So making sure that word is out there that people understand that as well.

Todd: [00:35:39] I think we are seeing in some situations where some of the insurance companies are now pulling back. And not wanting to fund it. But I think there are things happening at the state level as well as at the federal level to to try to, you know, say no, you have to basically telehealth is equivalent or can be equivalent to in-person and you have to pay for it. Yeah. So we we have to keep pushing and making sure that it doesn't go away. The reimbursement doesn't go away. Um, the other thing that's happening right now, Heather, is, is. We have what's called this compact that's moving forward the Speech-language Pathology and Audiology Compact. And we expect it to probably in the next year or so. Hopefully it'll be fully functional, but I think we're up to about 23, 24 states that have signed on to the compact. And essentially what this would mean is that if you are licensed in one of those states, you could provide services in any of the other compact members in those states without having to get a full license in that other state. So right now, we're like Kim. She has to get she has to be fully licensed in every state that she's in and every.

Kim: [00:37:05] State that might that yeah, every state that I am physically sitting and where my client is physically sitting, which is something you have to be careful about with telling clients, like I've said, like, okay, it looks like you're traveling this week now, just so you know, I'm only licensed in California, Idaho and Utah. So if you're outside of that area, we're going to need to cancel the session.

Heather: [00:37:26] Yeah, right. Yeah. I've seen this across other I know that mental health professionals are also have a similar where and I love that because again, we live in a digital world we can have access to to people in anywhere. I mean I work with clients, you know, in Iraq, I've worked with clients in Australia, I've worked with clients wherever. And I'm not necessarily saying that you guys, you know, but why can't you work with a client in Florida? If you live in Washington, why can't you work? You know, and so I love that that this is kind of moving forward. Let's take what we learned from Covid. Let's take what we the good from it, and let's continue moving it forward, because I do think that is a huge part of, like you said, that that client that had to drive 2.5 hours for an hour, you know, appointment. I mean it's a huge strain on the family.

Todd: [00:38:26] Yeah exactly, exactly. But we so we see lots of positive things happening in the field and I think the compact happening, I think that's, that's going to change, you know, how we do business so to speak, and how we're providing services. Um, and, and frankly it's, it's been pushed, um, this kind of model has been, is being used, has been used in nursing and physicians who can do that now and, and they've been very vocal because they want to be able to work with patients across the state line if it's if that patient has driven in from across the line, they want to still be able to work with their patient. And and so they they've been pushing for this as well. So I think a lot of this will continue. And and hopefully in the next year we'll have the compact. Hopefully it will will reach all 50 states and territories eventually. Um, great. Yeah. So it's it will change how we do telepractice going forward.

Heather: [00:39:35] And so I want to wrap up just by talking about, you know, we always want to take away or some kind of challenge. And I know, you know, just I want to give someone some kind of actionable step they can take. So what would you say that that would be with telehealth in mind?

Kim: [00:39:54] And when I think about it, I think just maybe identifying one client or contact that you've had in the past that maybe you know that they're driving really far for a session or someone that's been interested to you in the past and then didn't do it because of distance and maybe just offering a, you know, free initial session to try it out. I think that gives the it's it's hard to know how to do telepractice until you do it. So I think jumping in but having that you know like this is something that's new for me I know it's new for you. Let's the first session is, you know, I will provide that just for us to try it out. And I think that'd be a great way to kind of dip your toe in and see if it's something that you could viably offer to someone.

Heather: [00:40:39] Yeah. And when love about that, it's not an all in kind of situation. You don't have to go all in. Yeah. Yeah. Try it out see if it if you enjoy it, see if it works well for your client and then if it does, then you go in a little bit more, you take the next step. Yeah.

Kim: [00:40:55] And there are some like, you know, minimum requirements. You want to make sure that you're using a platform that is HIPAA compliant, like Free Zoom is not HIPAA compliant. I feel like everyone knows that by now, but just in case they don't. But that was something to the cost of the health care. Zoom went way down during the pandemic, which it could have gone way up, but it went way down during the pandemic. So it's something that does make it viable. And you can buy a month of that just to try it out.

Heather: [00:41:28] Yeah, I love that. Well, thank you so very much. I love we've had a great conversation. I hope that anyone listening can take a couple different, you know, 1 or 2 little tidbits from this and and either decide how they can, you know, improve telehealth that they're currently offering or, or maybe decide, hey, I'm going to try it with one client and see how it goes. So I really appreciate you both being on here today.

Kim: [00:41:59] Thank you.

Todd: [00:42:00] Thank you, Heather.

Heather: [00:42:01] Definitely. Well, I just want you guys to remember that it's just one little step at a time. Every little step, every little thing, you know, grows and adds to to your marketing. And so I know that, you know, sometimes you can feel overwhelmed in your marketing, but it doesn't have to feel that way. Just doing one little thing will help your business. So I just wanted to say thanks guys for listening and happy marketing, y'all.

Heather: [00:42:28] We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Elliot: [00:01:20] I have no clue what you're talking about.

Heather: [00:01:21] He, like, grips the table and is like, Oh, goodness, what is she going to do next? So episode 23. This episode is being launched on our anniversary, not only our anniversary, but our 25th anniversary.

Elliot: [00:01:41] Oh, cool.

Heather: [00:01:42] 25. By the way, babe, in case you were forgetting.

Elliot: [00:01:45] Are you going to tell me Michael Phelps is really here? 

Heather: [00:01:47] Yeah, Michael Phelps is coming.

Elliot: [00:01:49] Or what? Um.

Heather: [00:01:51] That would be a whole different platform. A whole different podcast, Really? I wouldn't know what to talk about other than you're really cool. Michael Phelps. But okay, so we are talking backlinks today. We're not going to talk about our anniversary, although 25 years is pretty dang cool. Um, and I don't know if that means we're old or if we just were babies when we got married. Okay, but yeah. So did you guys know that over 66% of all pages on websites have absolutely no backlinks? Like, that's amazing. That is shocking. This comes from refs, who is a great resource for SEO tools. 66%, guys, that's a lot. So if you have a handful of backlinks, guess what? You're already beating them. You're already like doing better than your competition. So congratulations on that. And that's, you know, let's pat ourselves on the back because, I mean, wow, like mind blown when I saw that percentage. Um, so let's talk about backlinks. Let's talk about what we can do to create backlinks. First off, I want to ask you, what are backlinks?

Elliot: [00:03:16] Well, backlinks. Essentially what it is, it's when, um. Somebody is going on to your website or a website and they find a piece of information that they think is pretty cool and would like to share with others. So what they will more than likely do if they like that piece of information, if they are a blogger or somebody who owns a website, they'll go on to theirs and they will put a link. To your website. Hence that becomes a backlink. And then anybody else who goes on to their website will see that. And pretty much it gives you credibility and some authority because they're referring back to you saying this person has knowledge and said subject. So and also what that is, since we're talking about backlinks and there's multiple ways of getting not backstrokes what that essentially does that that what I described is a natural backlink where it you're it's passive. You didn't do anything except you have a website with great content. I was going to.

Heather: [00:04:24] Say you created great content. I mean that's, that's pretty big. That's something. Yes. So when we talk about a natural backlink, it's it's really the idea that if someone. You know, it was out there writing a blog post or quoting, you know, that they're looking for some kind of authority out there. So they may take a quote from your website on a on a blog post that you wrote. Maybe you did a research project, maybe, you know, just any kind of valuable information out there that will support them. They're going to pull that and then they're going to reference you in that blog post or on their website. Um. So really a natural backlink isn't that hard to do? It's not like I don't know. I think sometimes people think backlinks. Oh my gosh. Like, that's so much work. What could I do? Like, who do I need to. Who do I need to be? What do I like? You know, kind of like a backstroke. Do I need to do a backflip? Something? It doesn't really need to be that hard. A natural backlink is just create valuable, amazing content and people will find you.

Elliot: [00:05:36] Exactly. And if and obviously, like I said, if they like what they see, they're going to want to share it. Yeah.

Heather: [00:05:43] So there are other ways to do backlinks, though, other than just like a quote from your website. I mean, you can do things like if you had some kind of infographic or visual content, they could also create, you know, share that and have a link to you as well.

Elliot: [00:05:58] Right, exactly. And before I go there, let's just back backpedal just one second and find out there's a lot of.

Heather: [00:06:04] Back going backwards today.

Elliot: [00:06:06] It's back stroke for a second and discuss how it benefits us. Right. So what is the importance of a backlink? Why should we have a backlink other than we know that we know that there's 66% of the people that don't have a backlink, but why should we have one? The reason being is it's building and we kind of we kind of insinuated or talked about it just briefly, but it's building that authority and that credibility, and that's what Google looks for. They want to know who has the most credibility, who has the knowledge. And to them, if they see somebody was backlink to another person, it was a referral. Then they consider that to be somebody who has that authority and that knowledge and that's what you want. That's very important in today's age of SEO is to have that authority figure. It's kind of like it's kind of like looking for a mechanic, right? You're not you're probably not going to go just to some directory or lookup and do a Google search to find out who, you know, some mechanic. You want to look at the referrals, Correct. You're going to ask your neighbor or somebody, hey, who do you think is a good mechanic? And they're going to say, Hey, Joe Schmo over there is the best mechanic I've seen. Joe Schmo. He's a great guy, Joe Schmo, that great guy. And that's kind of how these backlinks work. Um, they say, yep, Google says so and so website that person. That's the guy to go to because he has about six backlinks to him. So he must have that authority and that's the benefit.

Heather: [00:07:39] And I think that's the big word authority. Google is looking to ensure that you have authority, that you have credibility before they put you at the top of the list, so to speak. They want to make sure that they are giving the best. You know, when you when someone goes in to search for therapists near me or physical therapist near me or whatever it is, they want to make sure that they are putting the the most credible websites first. And that's really the goal of a backlink, is that we're long term, is that we're the more backlinks we get, the more credibility we get, the more Google ranks us better.

Elliot: [00:08:20] Exactly. Exactly. And now now we can go ahead and move forward a little bit back Now we're.

Heather: [00:08:26] Allowed to use infographics.

Elliot: [00:08:28] You infographics.

Heather: [00:08:29] You got permission.

Elliot: [00:08:32] Yeah. So there's there's multiple and we mentioned the natural backlink correct. And that's probably one of the best methods if you have great content. So focus on your content. Obviously the.

Heather: [00:08:42] Easiest.

Elliot: [00:08:43] It's the easiest because it's passive. You don't have to do a lot.

Heather: [00:08:46] You're not having I mean, you know, unless you're a graphic designer, creating graphics can be or unless it's something that just feeds your soul. Creating graphics takes a lot of time.

Elliot: [00:08:56] So Exactly. So and the other methods you have, what Heather just talked about is graphics, so infographics, right? Um, those are charts or some cool visual graphic that makes sense to people and that because a lot of people like are visual, we're more visual than audio and we like to see something that's clear, simple, precise. And so if you see some graphic that you like, you're going to pull that and then cause a backlink. So creating infographics is one way. Also, uh, flow charts. I think I saw a website, I can't remember honestly if it was a tour or a hotel, did some kind of cool flow chart showing all the, all the amenities and all the stuff that they had and all the products they provided. And it showed in a flow chart method, which is kind of cool so that that attracts people and people are going to want to share that. And then another method is, is surveys.

Heather: [00:09:57] And this one I actually think could very quickly um, become backlink worthy as. That a thing? If it's not, then I just created the term surveys because like I just pulled that 66% of all of all pages have no backlinks from ahrefs. Guess how they got that? It's from a survey. It's from going out and doing the research. So people are looking again for credible sources to use on their website. So when you're doing a survey, as long as it's a well founded survey using like the methods, good methods for for creating a survey, then they're going to want to I mean, they don't want to go and do a survey. They're going to take your efforts and, you know, quote your surveys. And that's going to benefit them as well as you. So surveys are a great thing when you do research, if you're, you know, if you have questionnaires or things like that. And then you write a blog post on your findings. I mean, that's pure gold for for other businesses to say, oh, my gosh, look at this. This is the this is the the information, the statistic that I have been looking for that's going to support my blog post. Um. So I think that's I mean, surveys, like I said, are gold.

Elliot: [00:11:26] Oh, exactly. Like, for instance, if I've seen this before, an outdoor recreational site. Right. Um, wanted to bring in more traffic. What do they do? They got a marketing team together, got a survey done to find out what were the best campgrounds in the States. So they did that. And that is an interesting thing. You know, he likes to go outdoors and camp. And if you like to travel and check out other states, you're going to want to see who do you think has the best campgrounds? Well, that brought in a lot of traffic because there's a lot of backlinks to that as well. There's other people out there doing the same thing. So they took that piece of information and that just created a lot of traffic for them. I think it bought them up another 1,020%. I don't remember exact numbers, but so that's surveys are a great idea.

Heather: [00:12:11] Yeah, that's great. Um, one of the, the things that I really like, I found a quote. It's by Matt Cutts and he says, the objective is not to make your links appear natural. The objective is that you are natural, that your links are natural. And really, to me, that's I mean. I think that just goes back into create valuable content, create content that's going to help your clients benefit, you know, whether that's blog posts on on how to sleep when sleep methods for for people who have back pain or, you know, sleep methods for sleep apnea or whatever it is. Create content that your ideal customers clients want to read about and others will find that of value as well and link back to you. So make it natural. If you if it needs to be, you know, something where you're like, oh, I got to shove this in. It doesn't feel natural and it's just not going to benefit you that much. That much.

Elliot: [00:13:22] Right.

Heather: [00:13:23] Um, so I know that there's different things. So we've talked about what are backlinks, how do they work, how does it benefit us, but how do and then even some of the ways in how we ourselves can get backlinks. Um, what if we what if we don't have a blog? What if we're not? Um, you know, that's just not our thing at this. At this point in our business, are there other ways to have backlinks or to create backlinks?

Elliot: [00:13:53] Yeah, certainly. There's this, this a little bit more time consuming, a little bit more effort. You have to be very proactive in this, but it's pretty much building a relationship. So you need to go out and search possibly an influencer or a blogger, um, or some other website owner. You need to do a little research, find out who that individual is, somebody who's obviously somebody who's within the same industry as you. You know, you want to keep it related. Um, and then you want to email that individual and start building that relationship. And that is, um, letting them know, Hey, I've read your blog, I've read your post. I thought it was great. Um, what do you think? And then come up with an idea to kind of relate to them or write something that is in comparison to what they wrote and say, Hey, I thought of this to go along. What do you think of this piece of information? And if you like it, would you be willing to share it and say Share? Don't say backlink, just say share. And more than likely they'll share it. If you put within that email your your link to your website or your blog or whichever.

Elliot: [00:15:03] If you don't have one, just build up a website, build up something, you can put that or even if it's just a share, if you don't have a blog, that's the good thing. It's a share that's also on social media. So that will create that relationship. The one thing that's what you want to do, one thing you don't want to do, and this is kind of old school, is you don't want to go out there immediately asking for a backlink. Say, Hey so-and-so, I saw this, would you please link to my site because I have this this to show you. That's an immediate no go. They're going to say no, I'm sorry. Absolutely. That's that's not building a relationship. You want it to be a win win? That's that's like I said, it's a little bit more effort, a little bit more time consuming. But it's actually you build that relationship with that person. You can have a good thing going. Um, the other way, too is, is there's actually sources out there on one of them called Haro, which stands for helping a reporter online.

Heather: [00:15:55] There's h a r o.

Elliot: [00:15:58] H a r o just look up h a r o on Google and you'll find that and you can get onto their email list of reporters. And what they do is these reporters are going online looking for quotes for their piece that they're trying to work on looking for something. So if you think, again, this is a little bit more time consuming, you have to have some information. You have to start writing and creating something, even if it's not a website. You have to have something, a blog, a piece of information, a paper and have those available readily available, because these will come up fast and you only have so much time. You have a very short window to actually post something and give it to them and definitely don't use chat because they will smell that a mile away. So don't try to throw that at them because they know it. And they even say that online, believe it or not, they'll come up and say it right there. Please don't provide us any chat. Yep. So but you can start building a relationship with the reporter, which is great because you can end up on some of these great publications, you know, and that's fantastic authority right there.

Heather: [00:17:01] Well, and I think, you know, because when I hear you talk a little bit, it's part of me is like, oh my gosh, it might just be easier to create a blog, right? But a blog is something that you have to be consistently feeding, doing, whereas these other things can be just on occasion, um, especially if you already have, you know, there's a lot of, of you guys who have done research, who have maybe papers published you can pull from that and they, and then just refer to your paper on, I mean because that's a great resource. You've done the research, you've written the paper already on it, so why not continue to benefit from it? Right, exactly. Um, so, so it is yes and no. It is, it is more work and it isn't more work because a blog, you know, takes. Okay, well, I've got to write at least one blog article a month or whatever and get it published on my website. So there's pros and cons to both. I guess what I'm saying. Um, believe you me, I mean, if you guys have heard any of my podcasts, you know that I can, I can rant and rave about how great blogs are. So but, you know, it's not always for everyone. And timing is important with a blog because it is a commitment. So this is a little less commitment, um, for you doing something like. Reaching out to an influential blogger or, you know, even just or using Haro or one of those things can be. Can can be helpful to just slowly create the backlinks. Correct. Um, so one of the questions are all backlinks good for us?

Elliot: [00:18:46] That's a good question.

Heather: [00:18:47] For our some making us do the backstroke.

Elliot: [00:18:50] Exactly. Um, that's, that's something that there are tools in SEO that we can check to see what backlinks you're receiving and headers right on. There's some backlinks that just have nothing to do with your industry. Um, somebody thought maybe something was just cool or they're just trying to throw a backlink out there and hope that maybe you link up with them, but actually that's doing more harm to you than benefiting you.

Heather: [00:19:16] I have a great example. So one time. I was having this discussion with someone who was an SEO person and they're like, Oh yeah, we'll get you backlinks. We'll get you to the top of the, you know, the list, this and this and that. And so when I started to dig in further, um, they had a restaurant that was one of their clients that they had linked it to a veterinarian clinic. What the heck does a restaurant have to do with unless you're feeding dog, which I might get emails for that comment, but I'm like or some other animal that's at the veterinarian clinic. I they don't have anything to do with one another. They're not related. It is not going to benefit you to have your restaurant linked with some random business. It's the same thing for you if you're a physical therapist, unless you see dogs and are helping them with physical therapy on the side, probably shouldn't be linked with a veterinarian clinic. So it needs to make sense. Whoever you are linked with because you guys are all holding hands together, you know, And so you want to make sure that that you have some kind of it's relatable. There's some relationship to it.

Elliot: [00:20:33] Exactly. And Heather's right on it. And Google will know that they they will know that it's not the same industry. So in some ways, you may get penalized for that. And so you might want to ask to remove that backlink or get rid of that backlink. And like I said, there's tools to do that's part of SEO. That's part of what we do.

Heather: [00:20:52] Yeah, Yeah. So, yeah, definitely. You know, we're always looking to build reputable backlinks and to remove the disreputable, the bad backlinks because like I said, they're going to make us do the backstroke. Um, think.

Elliot: [00:21:08] See how you're tying that in. Yeah, that works. Okay. Well, I thought it was more of a dad joke at first, but now I get it. Okay.

Elliot: [00:21:14] You know.

Heather: [00:21:15] Dad jokes are the best, so. Um, so I just want to wrap this up with a couple different things. You know, SEO Refugee says the three essential elements of an effective SEO are effective communication, useful information and high quality backlinks. And again, we need to do this in a natural way. You know, we're not when you're thinking of SEO and it comes to keywords, you never want to shove keywords just in your in a on a page. You want it to be natural. Same thing with links when you're adding links. If you're writing an article on the benefits of of doing a sleep study, I seem to be on sleep. Maybe I need a nap. Um, the benefits of of sleep studies then you're going to want to find. Some kind of credible sources that are going to help you with that article. Right. To pull from there. And that's how backlinks work. Make it natural. Have it make sense and then you're going to be off. You know, you're going to be doing great again. I mean. 66%. So if you're in that 34% of creating some backlinks, you're probably winning, um, and doing better than you really think. So that's the good news. Okay, so what's our takeaway? Our challenge for this week.

Elliot: [00:22:49] You asking me? 

Heather: [00:22:51] Yeah.What's our takeaway? Our challenge? What's something well mean?

Elliot: [00:22:54] Will you pause like you want to respond? I'm like, it's going to be interesting. Okay, So.

Heather: [00:22:59] You know when you do podcasts, they don't talk back to you.

Elliot: [00:23:01] Oh, yeah, Just I thought I'm like, thought it was a pretty smart guy. And what technology do I not know about? Okay, so yeah, the takeaway, I think the biggest takeaway and we've hit on this about 3 or 4 times is a natural backlink. And by saying that you need to have really good content. So if you're going to focus on anything on here and if you're going to take away from anything when you're creating that website, just make sure you have really good content. One thing you can do is, is when you're writing it, have multiple people read it, see what they get out of it. You know, I'm sure that's what you do. You have multiple people read your content and see what it looks like and you probably read it over and over again, see if it makes any sense and if it's something good that I think that's the biggest takeaway. The number one thing.

Heather: [00:23:51] Yeah. So create good content. I mean, you're already a. You know, you already have expertise in your field and and share what you know. We're not asking you to reinvent the wheel. Just share what you know and you will be rewarded by that. Um, okay. So this has been another episode. Uh, happy 25 to us.

Elliot: [00:24:19] Yay! 25.

Heather: [00:24:21] Here's to 25 more. 

Elliot: [00:24:22] Goodness. Yeah, that's 25. Wow.

Heather: [00:24:29] Um, and we hope that you guys get something out of this. If nothing else, understand that backlinks are not this scary, voodoo like thing. It is something that you can't. It's obtainable. It's something you can do. It's something that you just start off slow. You just continue to build on that a little bit at a time. Really helps with your marketing. And I just want to leave this with you. Happy marketing, y'all.

Elliot: [00:24:57] Happy marketing, y'all.

Heather: [00:25:01] We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Cindy: [00:01:05] Thank you. Heather. I'm so glad to be here.

Heather: [00:01:07] Yeah, definitely I, I really enjoyed. Preparing for this podcast. I learned so much and I always love having a conversation with you about your business and and what's going on. So let's talk a little bit about your background and what you do and then how you became a business owner.

Cindy: [00:01:34] Sounds good.

Heather: [00:01:36] And so what? What are you. So you own a counseling center?

Cindy: [00:01:40] Yes. Yes. Like the way counseling center in New Jersey.

Heather: [00:01:44] And how long have you owned it?

Cindy: [00:01:46] Next year it'll be 20 years. So 2004, we we became an LLC.

Heather: [00:01:53] Yeah, Yeah. And before that, what were you what were you doing? Because you kind of, you know, many business owners say, hey, okay, like I've been a counselor or a therapist or whatever. I've been doing this for a while. All of a sudden they're like, I want to open a business. But that's not that's not your journey. Your journey was a little bit different from from the typical like, let's start a business.

Cindy: [00:02:20] Correct. Yeah. I have my undergraduate in health and physical education. I wanted to be a teacher and then went to graduate school for counseling. And then then I worked in a children's psychiatric hospital for six years as a recreation therapist. So really integrating those two degrees that I had and then I did some teaching and and some other things and in because in New Jersey, they didn't have a licensed professional counselor license yet. And I didn't feel comfortable just putting out a shingle and say hey yeah I'm a I'm a therapist. And so when they did, I was able to be grandfathered in. To have my license as a professional counselor and. Just kind of started seeing people out of my church. And in 2004, the pastor I was working with decided to move to a different state. And so I thought it was a good time to really branch out and have an office and work with other people, because I do like to work together as a team, don't I don't like being a solo person. So in 2004. We we started like the Way Counseling Center.

Heather: [00:03:55] Yeah. That's so exciting that you guys have been in for almost 20 years. That's amazing. Yeah. Um, but the journey of starting a business. I mean, it was it was not all it was cracked up to be, Right? It was a little bit different.

Cindy: [00:04:10] Well, I don't have any business training or I didn't at that time and didn't know all that it entailed. Uh, except that. Okay, I had an LLC, and, uh, a friend of mine said, yes, I'll. I'll be a partner because you needed two people for an LLC. And she found a great space that was large enough that I could have other people. So a couple people I knew, I asked to come on board, so there was no sitting down with business people or other counselors or anybody to say, okay, how do we do this? Very planned out. It was very much, Yeah, this sounds like a good idea. Let's do it.

Heather: [00:05:02] Um, and that's kind of one of the I mean, even now, you know, almost 20 years later, most therapists don't have any business classes. They don't take business classes in college. That's one of those things I could get on a soapbox about. Like I'm like, just at least have one business class, just one. Because a large percentage of of therapists become business owners. And so just some kind of here's how to get started. You know, here's how to create an LLC, here's something you know is would be so helpful for for many of you and that's you know it kind of becomes this sink or swim situation where it's like, okay, I've got to figure this out real fast. I just got thrown in the deep end and now I have to figure out how to pay employees. Now I have to figure out how to, you know, navigate contracts and, um, you know, office space and all the things that come with being a business owner. Marketing. Um. And so it's a it's a it's a big jump from working for someone else or even just being maybe like a solopreneur working like doing telehealth to all of a sudden, like we're going to open up a brick and mortar building with, you know, with other therapists. And I mean, there's a lot to know, right?

Cindy: [00:06:29] And many, many people coming out of college these days think, oh, yeah, I'm just going to work for myself after I get after I'm fully licensed and it'll be great. And they don't they don't consider all the costs, really. In fact, one counselor friend I know said, working for yourself, having your own business is like after you minus all the costs, insurances, everything else. And these days the electronic health record program and and HIPAA and other HIPAA compliance stuff, it's like working for Trader Joe's. It's very, very small amount that is is a take home.

Heather: [00:07:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's definitely a huge learning curve and a lot that comes with it. Um, so, you know, with starting out, one of the things we discussed is that when you first started out, you did feel some of those imposter syndrome feelings that you were like. How did I become the boss? Yes.

Cindy: [00:07:38] Yeah. And and really, because I. I thought of it and and made up the name and and had other people come join me. It's like, yes, I get to be the boss and not from anything that I really studied or earned or anything else. So it it was. It was an impostor kind of feeling. Yeah. Syndrome. What did you.

Heather: [00:08:07] Do? Was there anything to do that helped you overcome some of that, or was it just within time that, you know, after a period of time that some of those feelings kind of abated?

Cindy: [00:08:21] Well, sometimes it probably is still there. Yeah, like, what am I doing? Um, but I over the years, I found people that knew a little bit more about business. I thought about from the get go. I thought about the bosses that I had that I wanted to be like. And one of the main characteristics was their. Always finding something good. Being a very positive leader. And and so I've wanted to be a good leader. So that's been one of the things. And then and studying, I think a big thing is investing in ourselves. In our own growth, but as as a leader too. So finding different people that I resonated with that. I wanted to put into practice some of the things that they were saying.

Heather: [00:09:22] Yeah, yeah. And I love that. I, I. From personal experience, I'm the same where I had I was lucky to work with some small business owners in the beginning who were very influential and me deciding to want to be to own a business and that they took me under their wing. They, you know, nurtured my abilities, my talents, my skills. They they wanted they're like, What do you want? And then they helped me to get there. Um, and I guess seeing the qualities in others that you really admire and deciding that's who you want to be as a leader, right?

Cindy: [00:10:03] Because if you're the leader, the, the people that are working with you are going to take on some of those characteristics.

Heather: [00:10:14] And it really goes to how like the work culture, you know, like if you have a toxic work culture, I can't say that word work culture. Work culture. Um, you know, it's really from the top down. So as, as the owner, you know, the culture that you create is going to trickle down to everyone in, in the business and the practice, right?

Cindy: [00:10:43] And part of our key characteristics, our top three, is that we have a real passion and compassion for people. We just love people. That's key, I think. And and we have a passion for learning and we are always learning more and more. And and we have a positive attitude because if we have some a sense of humor is very important in our field. And for me. And so if we don't have a sense of humor, if we're if we don't have a positive attitude, um, a person would not fit into our culture.

Heather: [00:11:24] Yeah, definitely. And that's I think over time, one of those things that you learn as you're hiring or bringing on other therapists, I would imagine that you learn, you kind of start to see the the red flags in the hiring process. You're like, you know, I don't know if they would be a great fit. They may have all the credentials in the world, but but if they, you know, have a negative attitude or, you know, just can't show up, then then that might not be the the best fit. Right.

Cindy: [00:11:55] And I saw that over the years where there would be some that that just were complainers or negative attitude. And it really does seep through. To everybody else. So the group that we have are just fantastic with their attitude and and all those key characteristics.

Heather: [00:12:18] Yeah, that's great. I think one of the things when we were talking before is being the leader you would like to lead you that idea, you know, kind of do unto others as you would do unto. Um, and so really looking at like, what kind of who do I want as a boss and writing down some of those qualities or those things that you would like to see, and then saying, okay, now how can I be that leader or boss for someone else? Yeah.

Cindy: [00:12:49] Yeah, yeah. Making a list or finding a list of all sorts of characteristics and and picking the top ten and then, you know, narrowing that down and. And then how do I develop that? Yeah.

Heather: [00:13:06] Yeah. What is one thing that you wish you knew before you started your business? You're like, That would have come in handy. I made a huge blunder of that.

Cindy: [00:13:18] That's a great question and a tough one to answer because probably everything I knew, nothing going in. If I had to pick one thing, it might have been. A pay structure that benefited everybody. And yeah, that might be it, but just. Yeah, I'm being relational. I knew relationships were the most important thing and and building that relationship and building a good team and that's taken that in itself has taken a lot of time. So maybe even figuring out what were those key characteristics I wanted to focus on, I wanted to look for. Yeah. And yeah, so, uh, and we're still learning. I'm still learning.

Heather: [00:14:15] Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's one of those things that and, you know, businesses change how we run business changes. What was great 20 years ago is obviously very different now. We have we have telehealth now. You know, that's a whole new that's a whole new game. Yeah. It's a big. Yeah. Changes everything.

Cindy: [00:14:37] Yeah. We are able. And with my personality the way it is, we were able to adjust to telehealth rather quickly because we we don't have to spend a lot of time. Planning and thinking through things, we can really much act on our feet. And so we adjusted to that. That very well, I think. Yeah.

Heather: [00:15:02] Yeah. Um, and I know that we talked about that. One of the things that was helpful to you was of course taking some business or leadership classes and then just having a really good support system around you.

Cindy: [00:15:17] Yeah, very important. Yeah. First, we are we are a Christian counseling center, but we, I think one of the things that makes us very unique is that we, we really do meet people where they're at. We we have the evidence based. The traditional therapy and integrated with our Christian faith. But we give everybody an option of, if they want, just the traditional evidence, base based counseling, which is fine. And so we've we've been able to work with all sorts of people from all different backgrounds. And that's that's exciting. And. So certainly what has helped me be a leader is what's in the Bible, how Jesus led and and other things that that are there and having those positive role models and and being a counselor, too. We have skills that help us be a a good leader and being able to listen. I have one counselor that was so thankful that I really understood one of his needs and I'm like, Well, why wouldn't I know it? He expressed what he needed and it's like, okay. And and that's fine. Without trying to disagree with him or change his, his, his need there. And, and then just studying storybrand, which is how I met you. Um, reading Donald Miller's books. There's, there's a, I guess, a success coach by the name of Darren Hardy that I've studied a lot of his materials, which have been very helpful. Uh, Michael Hyatt with the full focus planner and some of his materials or have been some of the main things that have really helped me develop my leadership skills.

Heather: [00:17:28] Yeah, I think that's great. And that goes back to the ideas of always learning. Yeah. And being open. I think you have to be very open as a leader. You can't just say this is how it's going to be and this is how it's always going to be. I mean, that's just that wouldn't work for anyone. That again, goes back to that toxic culture.

Cindy: [00:17:47] Especially my team that.

Heather: [00:17:51] Yes, definitely. So let's talk about some takeaways. I always like to leave with some kind of takeaway or maybe a challenge. And we've kind of touched on a few of them. Um, one was writing down characteristics that you admire and picking a couple that you'd really like to focus on. Yeah. Um, and then another one obviously would be following some of those, those gurus and business, Donald Miller and Michael Hyatt and all of those people because they've got some great books, podcasts, everything, even courses that that will really help you to step into that leadership role, to step into, you know, owning a business and so that you can feel a little bit more business savvy. And that goes back to that imposter syndrome. You know, often when we have that the way that at least I feel like one of the big ways that I can combat it is by education, is that it makes me it gives me the confidence to then be like, you know what? I know the answers. I may not have done this before, but I but I've found answers. I've found things that work for me and my team. Um, another one as far as creating culture, would be to create a mission statement. Yes. For your office. Because, you know, it's so important when and do it together as a team, maybe. Yeah.

Cindy: [00:19:23] We haven't done that. But that is that is a good idea.

Heather: [00:19:27] Yeah, I know. Donald Miller has a great mission statement. Course that you can go through. So and think with that is that when you can sit down and you guys can all come together and collaborate, then again, everyone really, truly understands who you are, what you represent, and how you can help your clients better. Because when there's that clarity, then everyone can move forward. Yes. With success, you know? So yeah.

Cindy: [00:20:00] I think another takeaway is don't be a boss. Be a leader. And it would not work well. My personality and the team's personality for me to be the boss. I'm a leader and we're in this together. And that works. It's very collaborative and I appreciate that. And seeing how other businesses work and and the toxic culture. Let's see if I can say that correctly. That is it's just so sad to see because it doesn't have to be that way.

Heather: [00:20:41] Yeah, it absolutely doesn't. When you guys collaborate and work together, you know, it creates. An environment that everyone enjoys and can thrive in.

Cindy: [00:20:54] Yes. And that's what we want. We want we want them to develop their strengths. We want them to be the best person they can be. And and we want to help them grow.

Heather: [00:21:08] Yeah, we want them to love their job and then to feel like they can grow, continue to grow and develop as. As a professional.

Cindy: [00:21:16] Yes. Yeah.

Heather: [00:21:18] Yeah. Well, thank you so very much, Cindy, for being on the podcast. I really appreciate it. It's always a pleasure to talk to you and I feel like I always walk away with some tidbit that I can use either in my business or my personal life. It's funny. I feel often that I learn so much from Cindy is a client, and so I feel like often I learn so much from my clients, just from how they run businesses or how they do things. It's a fantastic opportunity. Um, so thank you again for being on the podcast and sharing with us. If you guys want to learn more about Cindy or Light the way counseling, they are based in New Jersey and they are fantastic. So again, it's been a pleasure and thank you. Yes, thank you very much. I just want to leave you guys with, you know, take one of those takeaways or challenges. Don't feel overwhelmed by it, but pick something that resonated with you today and know that not every business is going to operate the same. We're all we're individuals and our businesses are going to be individual, you know, very different and be okay with that. Um, and knowing that your business can can be different and operate different, but that it can be successful as well. So I just want to leave you all with this happy marketing, y'all.

Cindy: [00:22:44] Thank you, Heather Thank you.

Heather: [00:22:47] We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Heather: [00:02:01] It's kind of a placeholder, in essence, a digital placeholder, if that's the the direction that that someone takes. So there are things to have on a website that will help you to engage with your ideal clients and that will get people excited to work with you because it'll also warm the relationship. They'll understand exactly what you do, what services you offer, and when it comes time, they're going to have less questions. They're going to be like this. This is a good fit. Okay, So I'll tell you kind of a back up for half a second and tell you a story. So like I said, I am a web designer by trade, by training initially, obviously I've done more training to to offer additional marketing services. But web design is where I started and, you know, building websites, super excited about it. Love it. Gorgeous websites. Get my first couple of clients, I was actually doing contractual work in the beginning and I would meet with clients and they would be like, Well, I mean, I would ask them. I would say, Hey, if you could just send over all your content for your website, then I'll design it out. And they'd be like, What do you put on a website? And after about getting that question about five times, I just stopped and was like, What do you put on a website? Like, what is the purpose? What is actually supposed to go on there? I know how to make it look gorgeous.

Heather: [00:03:31] I know how to make it function. But I did not know what to put on a website and I am not one to to not have an answer for someone. If I don't have an answer. And I can't say that I have an answer for everything, that's definitely not it. But if I don't have an answer, I'm going to go and figure out the answer. So I actually, as some of you know, I am a storybrand certified guide, and that's where this really came into play. So I'm a web designer. I don't know what goes on a page. I can't help my clients, which I love helping people. I love, like giving people knowledge, sharing knowledge. And so that really, really bothered me. And so then I discovered Storybrand and Storybrand was a great way. It just it really broke it down into very simple terms. These are the things you should have on your website. This is how it's going to help you. Obviously, one of the big things with Storybrand is that you're not talking about you, your business. You are talking about how you solve your customer or client's problem. And so when we talk, when we are communicating on our website, we need to make sure that it's not just like I went to school and I got a master's degree and I, you know, been doing this for 25 years, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Heather: [00:04:57] Right? Because that's what people are going to do. It's kind of going to be like Charlie Brown's teacher, my mom, my mom. Okay, maybe I didn't do that, right? If you have a good Charlie Brown's teacher impression, send it to me. I'd love to hear it. So. Let's talk let's break this down in real terms. What do you put on a website? Well, there's a couple of different things that you put on a website. And this doesn't have to be like your home page. This is the website. So not all of these sections will go on your home page. Many of them will, but some of them we save for different pages, your bout page or your service page or where it makes sense. That's where we put it. So first off, on a website, you absolutely have to have a good header. You have to in some way catch their attention very quickly so that they want to continue reading. So that's number one and that goes across all pages. You need to have a good header and each of those headers for each of those pages should obviously be in line with with your core messaging. So you don't want to like go off into right field and totally be like, What? They just confused me.

Heather: [00:06:11] They were talking about you know, green and now they're talking about purple or something like that. Um, talking about unicorns. And all of a sudden we just started talking about narwhals, right? So we need to make sure that it's consistent, that it is on brand or on theme. Write your website. Everything. All of these different parts need to be consistent on theme. So we've got our header. Our header needs to very quickly do a couple of things. It needs to tell them exactly what services you offer. Tell them how it'll benefit them, what will their life look like afterwards, and then of course have a call to action. So most likely that's going to be a button. You need to have a button. Put a button. I've got another whole podcast on call to Action buttons. Check it out. I won't get on that soapbox about that today. Go and listen to the other podcast. So those are the three things they need to understand exactly what you do. Very quickly, you've got very like like seconds to engage with them, to be clear as to what you offer. Once we are done with the header or once we have that header, then we need to talk about what's at stake. This is something that a lot of websites miss out on. They miss the opportunity to talk about what is at stake. What I mean by that is they fail to to highlight what it looks like if they don't work with like if you don't work with the business.

Heather: [00:07:53] So for example, if you were a PT like a physical therapist, this what's at stake is that they may continue to be in physical pain if they do not come to you or if you want. This is an opportunity to differentiate yourself from other physical therapists. If you have some certain process or system, they may continue to, you know, maybe there they wonder what's going on or they just they get a couple of, um, physical therapy sessions without any luck. So maybe it's about the process, Maybe you have an amazing process. And so they will continue to kind of again, it boils down to that, that their life is, is they're still going to be some kind of pain. They may not understand their diagnosis. Maybe they're not getting to the root cause of of the pain. Maybe they're someone's just trying to fix the the top layer of pain versus figuring out what is actually truly causing the discomfort or pain. That because if you don't fix the root problem. Right, you're not going to fix it. So, um, there's a couple things that we need to be careful of. Obviously, you don't want to get like. Too far in the doldrums. Like depressed people and get. But you definitely need to have. Like, just poke at the pain point. Poke. We're not hitting. We're not slapping the pain point. We're poking at the pain point. If you were baking, this would be the salt in the recipe, whereas the sugar is everything else.

Heather: [00:09:35] So we just need a touch, a pinch of salt. Right. So let's talk about what terrible thing could happen if they don't use your service. That's really what we want to do. The next section is called Value Proposition. This is where the sugar comes in. This is where you get to tell them. You know, all the benefits of working with you, going back to that idea of being a physical therapist. Maybe you have a very clear process. Maybe you have an amazing diagnostic tool. Maybe you have friendly employees or fun atmosphere, whatever that is. Write down what success looks like. Write down the benefits of working with you. Just make a list and then pick three of them that support that. Your steaks that go back to the steaks. So you always want to be like making sure that you're staying consistently on brand, Right? But really talk about three of the benefits that come in working with you or that they can see in the long term. Even so, it could be just benefits working with you or it could be benefits of long term, no longer having pain, being free to enjoy activities that that they weren't able to participate in. Again, whatever those benefits look like. And then we've got the authority section or the guide section. A lot of businesses only use the authority section, authority. You you have to establish some kind of a authority, Right.

Heather: [00:11:19] We need to say, okay, yes, you know what you're talking about. You went to school. You so but this but the way you do it, you have to be very careful. It's not just i, i, i, i, i. Instead, you want to do two things. One, express empathy. And you could say, I understand that you have been in pain for years. Our our process is going to help you identify the pain, alleviate the pain and get back to living your life to the fullest or participating fully in life. Um, and then there's the second area authority. Authority is we've helped over, you know, 500 or 1000 or others who have had knee pain and been able to get back to living their life pain free. Um, that's one way of expressing authority. Another is just saying. We've been helping people since 2003 or whatever. So this is not a full on bio. It's it's very much like. In a very succinct way, expressing how you are an authority in the field, how you know what you're talking about. Um, but, but on the, the bio, let's, let's talk about that for just a half a second because. Most websites have an about page. Most websites have a bios on the about page. Again, a lot of people just start talking about themselves and they'll be like, I went to school or I graduated in school from in 2008 with my PhD in this or that or whatever.

Heather: [00:13:21] While that's important. While that is what helped you to become the professional that you are, to give you the knowledge that you need. People only care about your degree, your education, your experience expertise. They only care about it as far as it is going to help them. And so when you think about it in those terms, when you're like, okay. This is not about me. It's not about tooting my own horn. It's about. Talking about my education experience in terms of how it's helps my prospective clients. And that's a big shift in your mind when you really think about it, that all of a sudden you are saying. Um, you know, I have always been. Maybe you tell a backstory. Maybe there is some story. I've worked with speech language pathologists who they themselves were in speech therapy services as a child. And so it was very clear early on that they enjoyed. You know, being in speech so much and they wanted to help others. And so you can give that. You can give a why. But you can also say something like, um. With, you know, talk about the desire to help others. But in the you know, you could say something like okay in um. With a goal to help others live pain free. I decided to pursue my physical therapy to be to get a PhD in physical therapy so that they could live pain free and, you know, live their best lives.

Heather: [00:15:19] Or, you know, that's again a why you could talk about I had a knee injury at the age of 17 that didn't allow me to continue the sports that I enjoyed. And and while I was doing I realized that I really enjoyed the the industry and was passionate about helping. I wanted to be able to help others like like those that helped me. Um, so like I said, again, it's about telling a story, inviting them into a story of how you can help them, how you can help them, how you can help them. Is there an echo? Um, that's the, that's the thought that I want ingrained is how you help them. Um, okay, so a couple different areas that we have. One is pricing that can or cannot be like you can put it on your website or you can decide not to put it on your website. That's really a preference. Um, what you can do is instead of just like placing your pricing on your website is that you can talk about the different services that you do. So, you know, let's say that you do, um. If we're an SLP clinic. So a speech language pathologist, you could do okay. We do autism groups. Group therapy. We do Myofunctional therapy, which is a ten week program or something like that. And then we do weekly speech therapy for articulation and language comprehension. You just listed like what services you provide. You didn't put any price points to it, but you have that listed.

Heather: [00:17:10] If you're a mental health professional, you could say, you know, we do weekly. Individual therapy. Couples therapy. You could do like individual couples therapy or you could do like, what if you did, like, group therapy? You know, like couples group therapy or pre-marital group therapy, whatever it is. So you list off your services, you list off your pricing if if you want to add that to it. But that shows really clearly what services you provide. Um. And then one of my favorite. Sections on a website is the plan or the process section people really enjoy. Knowing what like painting a picture, what the next steps look like, what they should be doing. They like to follow steps. And so having steps. Very, very clearly laid out is going to help them. You know, if you were crossing a stream and if someone told you, okay, go to this stone, you know, this boulder or this or that, or, you know, this rock and that rock and this rock, then it'd be really easy. But navigating it yourself may mean that you might slip and on a slimy rock and fall into the water. Right? Um, so 3 to 4 steps. Four is the max. Once you get over four, then you confuse people. This is not every step in working with you. We are not talking about every minute detail. We don't need to be like, Hey, let's get on a consult call and then we're going to, um.

Heather: [00:18:55] You know, fill out an intake form and then bill insurance and then da da da da da da. They don't need to know this is high level. This is whatever your call to action is, is usually step number one. So let's say it's. Schedule a consultation. Step number two could be that beginning stages diagnose or assess, you know, your pain and then finally step that third step or fourth, depending on if you need a third in between step. Step number three, if you wanted it, it could be attend weekly therapy or a ten therapy. Um, or you can skip over to that to the last, the final step. The final step would be. What life looks like afterwards. Participate fully in life. Be Be free of pain, whatever that looks like. So you are painting a picture on how to get over each one of these stones. Which stones to use to get over the stream. And. And that. You know, it's so great. There's there's clarity in that and there's structure in that. And like I said, people really like to follow steps. So make sure you have your steps on getting started on how we work with you. Nobody wants to look at your website and be confused as to how to start working together. They're like, Should I call? Should I do this? Should I do that? Like what? What is it? Um, the there's a couple other areas.

Heather: [00:20:37] Obviously, we have some explanatory paragraph that really is, is what we call a one liner. It says what you do so point out a problem, how you solve it and what the end result looks like. Um, so it's, it's typically a couple of sentences, a paragraph you can. You know, when you're creating content, use that in different contexts. So you've got one on your home page and maybe you have one on your bout page that talks a little bit more about your business and the problem it solves for the client. The service page it would be very like if you have different service page, let's say you have a couples therapy and individual therapy. Well, the couples therapy is going to solve a different problem than the individual therapy, right? And so those that that content is going to be different. The final section on a website is your footer or in Storybrand, as we lovingly like to call it, your junk drawer. And you know that drawer. We all have one. I think I have three. I think I definitely have three. I think I've got one in my bedroom, one in my kitchen and one somewhere else. I don't know. We won't we won't talk about the junk drawers, but at least my junk drawers. We're going to talk about your website's junk drawer, though. The junk drawer is where you put all of the information that you don't know where to put. Now, I'm not talking about let's, like, shove it full of stuff, but you will have all of the pages that you have on your website on there.

Heather: [00:22:16] You will have social media links on there. You can have a lead generator or like an email signup for a lead generator on there. Um, you can have obviously your privacy policy or terms and condition. All the legal jargon that goes with a website is going to be on there. Your copyright. All of that kind of stuff. Because let me back up for just a second. I didn't even go into your menu because your menu shouldn't the menu on the top of your website should not have every page listed. We don't need a smorgasbord. This isn't like all you can eat buffet. You want to guide them through your website, which means catering the experience. So you present the information in the way that you feel like it is best served. Don't give them everything at once with like, here's every page that I have on my website. Here's everything you need to know. No, Instead give it to them little by little. Um. You know, feed them slowly. Let's not, you know, give them a huge platter and be like, What do you want to eat first? It's overwhelming. So hopefully this has helped you to figure out your website a little bit more. So my takeaway or challenge this week is to really work through each one of these sections. I will add some links in the bottom of this that you can go through and actually identify, you know, some of these different sections and to help you start workshopping all of these different areas for your website.

Heather: [00:23:56] Hopefully this answers the question what should I have on my website because. You know, when you have a website that really communicates and is clear and talks to your ideal client, all of a sudden the the leads you get are going to actually understand what you do. You're going to stop getting all of those calls where it's like, hey, do you do you like do this or that or random? And they're going to understand exactly. Assuming they've been on your website, they're going to understand exactly what you do, how you can help them and what the end result is going to look like. And they're going to be excited to work with you because you are going to be different. They are going to be like, Wow, this website is amazing. This is something like, I'm so glad that they're talking to me instead about them or worse. I'm so glad that it's talking to me instead of Google bots. Because let's face it, if your website was written for purely SEO keyword purposes, that is not for human consumption. Nobody wants to read that. Google bots probably don't even really want to read it. It gets pretty dry pretty quick. So go through this, you know, take one section at a time and just kind of spruce it up, work on one page at a time, whatever that looks like to you.

Heather: [00:25:24] Whatever is a measurable goal or a small goal that you can be like, you know what, I'm just going to work on my home page and I'm going to spruce it up. Um, and then there's something else. You guys, you don't have to do this alone. We have. Actually, if your website is just kind of, uh, like, I'm embarrassed to, you know, it's kind of like that mess when someone comes over to your house and you don't know that they're coming over and you're like, Oh, shoot. Like, my kitchen looks like a mess. Whatever. If you're embarrassed by your website, then we have we have started building website templates. This is a done with you program. You can check it out on our website. It is We guide you through every step of getting everything you need for your website. Like let's gather up the pieces and then you pick the template. One of our templates that we have created for those within the Allied health professionals and we build the site for you. You don't have to build the site. How cool is that? But we give you every tool you need to get you ready for us to get you a gorgeous site that looks good, that speaks to your clients and that you're going to be proud of and you're going to want to show off to everyone. So what's better than that? And at a very affordable price, because we know that this is especially geared for like startups or solopreneurs, very small businesses, because you shouldn't have to have a website that is unsightly or embarrassing or that you're hoping that people don't really actually find like you should be.

Heather: [00:27:11] You should love your website and it should look like a part of your business because I know that you provide amazing services and you should have a website that really showcases what you do, the value you bring and the services you offer. Hey guys, this is another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. I really hope that you take all of this to heart and keep marketing just one step at a time, block out a little bit of time each week to continue your marketing journey, because six months from now you'll be amazed at what you've accomplished and you're going to be excited about your business. Marketing doesn't have to be something that you're like, Oh my gosh, I need to avoid. I know it needs to be done. It doesn't have to be a root canal. It can be fun, it can be enjoyable, and it can be exciting to see what happens when you're marketing your business. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Mor: [00:01:36] Thank you for having me. I'm very excited.

Heather: [00:01:39] Yeah, definitely. So first off, I just want to allow you to introduce yourself. Let's talk a little bit about your background. Sure. And and what you've been doing just so that we can get to know you.

Mor: [00:01:53] Yeah, of course. So my background is quite diverse. I used to work in international development in Haiti, and then I went to business school over in Berkeley. And, um, and I always had a passion for therapy and was always interested in kind of psychology. And so a few years ago, I, you know, on the weekend in the evenings, got a master's in family therapy, got my MFA and began working as a therapist part time while also working full time in tech. So I kind of wear both both hats. But I'm really passionate about this topic, about talking about money as a therapist in particular. So I'm excited to to be on on here with you.

Heather: [00:02:38] Yeah, definitely. I did not know part of your history that you were in Haiti for a while, so that's very cool. I'd love to hear some stories. Um, we'll save that for another day, but I'd love to hear about your travels and all of those experiences. Um, and I love that you went back to school because you had that interest. We have that in common. You know, I was an English major once upon a time and then went back to school and web design, So, um, I just was interested in it. So I love that you have that as well. Um, so. Uh, and then you talked about like, you know, this, that you work in tech, but then you also see clients and, and how cool is that? Um, because I know that's a hot topic in the therapy world. And so you can kind of see both sides and the benefits and things like that. Um, so let's talk about money.

Mor: [00:03:35] Let's talk about money. Like, there.

Heather: [00:03:37] Should be like a song going on right now. Let's talk about money.

Mor: [00:03:41] Yeah.

Heather: [00:03:43] Uh, we'll we'll put that in later for sure. Um, so why is it difficult for people to talk about money, especially? Therapy based businesses.

Mor: [00:03:56] Oh, man. Of course. This is like I feel so passionate about this topic because on the one hand, I have this background in business in my MBA, and I think really analytically about like, you know, income and revenue and how we're thinking about things. And then as I got into the therapy space, I kind of learned that talking about money and thinking about money and thinking about therapy as your career and how you can make it work financially is so challenging because money is almost like a bad word in therapy. We're expected in a way to treat our clients like we just love them. And we do. We do love them. I love my clients, but it's just kind of out of us, of our hearts that we're working with them and having to navigate and and point to the fact that really it is a business arrangement in a way. And it is your your career can can, you know, feel at times at odds with being a caring therapist that is building trust, that is building that relationship that is so important for therapy to even be effective?

Heather: [00:05:04] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I've said this before, I've, I've kind of gotten on my little pedestal a little bit on social media about it every once in all. But I truly believe that it is okay to to help others and build a thriving clinic at the same time. I don't think that they have to be exclusive. I think that they can be inclusive because as you build your business, you're able to help more people, you're able to extend that. And so, you know, I want to challenge anyone who's who's had that thinking, who's struggled with that, thinking that maybe think about it in a different way, maybe thinking about it as, as I build my clinic, I can help or my practice I can help more people. You know, with their challenges and their struggles and the things that they're facing in their lives.

Mor: [00:05:57] Yes, I love that. And I also like to challenge therapists that even if it's just for you because you are valued at at that rate and because you want to spend your time with your family or and other things. And even if you don't feel like a lot of times we have to kind of find excuses that are around being serving others to assert what we need for ourselves. And I actually feel like the more we're comfortable with the real blatant truth of things and with really taking care of ourselves, the more that we signal that when we speak to our clients like it's not, there's nothing wrong with me not taking insurance. There's nothing wrong with my rate being X, This is just what I'm this is what I'm comfortable with. I think it really starts with that. Getting comfortable with yourself about what what you're going to charge, what you're worth and and not feeling like you have to make any excuses for it.

Heather: [00:06:55] Yes, I love that so much. I really I do think that is some kind of an internal struggle or conversation, at least that we need to have is what is my value and and understanding that is also and coming. I guess understanding that and being okay with that also helps you to bring more value to your clients.

Mor: [00:07:20] Totally, Totally. And I will tell you so in my in my associateship right now, I'm on like a sliding scale. So I have to have these conversations with clients all the time where they, you know, get a referral. I contact a client, they know that I'm on a sliding scale, that I'm for affordable, you know, folks that are looking for affordable therapy, but they don't know what that means. And I have to have a conversation of, you know, some people are expecting to pay $20 a session. You know, there's I have to be able to say this is what I'm starting at. Here's what I'm open to. And this is why. And at first it was really hard. And I think a big part of that for me was because I hadn't kind of clarified in my mind what was my walkaway point. I hadn't really clarified, like what I need, what I'm comfortable with, what I'm not. As soon as it was clear to me the whole way that I communicated it and the kind of assertiveness that I spoke about my rates at really changed. Yeah, I think kind of having that clarity is important.

Heather: [00:08:25] Um, so what are some of the challenges that you have encountered when talking about money?

Mor: [00:08:32] Yeah, think I think, you know, I have had all kinds of challenges this year in particular, as I mentioned, because of all of those sliding scale conversations. I think I think, you know, I actually am I'm laughing kind of remembering one of my most cringe worthy experiences was with this with this couple where I really wanted to work with them. I'm passionate about couples therapy. I'm working on getting certified with EFT, and I really wanted to work with them. They were really kind of on the lower end of the budget. Um, and I was like, You know, maybe we can just try a session, see how you feel. Because I was almost thinking like, if you try it, you'll, you'll want to do it. But then in the process, in my, in my, in my sight, I realized I couldn't really just give like a free, a freebie session. Like that's not really something you do. You have to have people sign a bunch of confidentiality forms. There's all these things and you don't want to do. Start working with someone who has a zero capacity to pay. So it's just not it's not a good idea. So I try to walk it back. Actually. I try to say, you know, actually it can be whatever you're comfortable paying, but like, I really got to collect something.

Mor: [00:09:49] It turned into this scenario where my client was like, I feel like really wronged. I feel like you going back on what you said. So before we even started therapy, we're, you know, really off to a bad start. And I remember thinking I just wanted to, like, run for the hills. Just like, never mind. But I couldn't. Like, you can't. That's not you can't do that ethically as a as a therapist. So it ended up working out. We had like a really direct conversation about it, um, you know, and we repaired what we call in therapy repaired and kind of like made the person comfortable and kind of feel heard. And now they're one of my favorite clients to work, to work with. But I think, I think there's all kinds of messy challenges that come up when you're trying to figure out like, what are you comfortable with? What are you saying to the other person? And again, I think part of that goes back to really having clarity on like what you will or won't do, what your rates are, where you have flexibility and where you don't.

Heather: [00:10:47] When you bring up such a good point that when you don't have clarity, when you aren't comfortable, maybe that's another word to when you're not comfortable with, you know, your pricing and your pricing model, people can feel that. Then, like you said, you get in trouble because you say something and then backpedal, and then there's that loss of trust. Yeah. And you're and you're having to try to repair the relationship like you said. So it's better. Which brings us really to that point of setting up some expectations from the beginning. I think that is one of the big things that needs to happen is, is that you need to be able to have that conversation right at the beginning. Obviously, you can't just like, you know, start, um. Having sessions and then just build them and then be like, What? Wait a second, we didn't have this conversation. So having all of this set up in the beginning helps the relationship to move forward in a healthy way that is going to help your clients in the long run.

Mor: [00:11:54] Yeah, definitely think think. Having that kind of expectation upfront is important. I also think another thing I've learned, I've done some research on this since since having some snafu's and the other thing that I've read about is like not overexplaining. A lot of times when you over explain why your rate is X or why you don't accept insurance, you're you're really signaling that you aren't feeling strong in your position. And so being comfortable, just putting it out there and my rate is X, you know, pause and also not expecting folks to necessarily be able to confirm straight away. Some people make the mistake of starting to negotiate against themselves after they've stated their rate because they're not hearing an immediate definitive response. But actually, if you if you let people know like go ahead and take time to think about it, check your finances, that's not a bad thing. If someone needs a little bit of time to to confirm their availability and their budget.

Heather: [00:13:00] Um, and that actually you saying that sparks a thought. You know, I'm in a, in a sales group and, and I know that's a bad word to say with anything with marketing or with, with therapy. But one of the things that we talk about, like if I'm, if I'm on a call, you know, with a prospect and things like that is pausing, you talk about the money and then you pause. And for us, it's more uncomfortable than it probably is for them because you're like, Oh my goodness. Like what's like you have this internal, like whole thought process going on. You're like, what are they thinking? I can't read them. I, you know, you don't know them that much that well, anyways, so, um, but but it's okay to have a pause. It's okay because people need to think about things. They need to be like, okay, Yes, I get it. This is where you're at. Yes, that sounds good. Let's move forward. Or like you said. You know what? Let me talk with my spouse or, you know, my significant other or whoever or let me think about it, whatever that is. It's okay to have a pause.

Mor: [00:14:06] Totally. Totally. And I think, you know, a lot of a couple of times I've had clients end up going away and talking with like, you know, whether it is like a grandparent or someone who actually helps support them, they might not have the answers to how to finance your rate straight away, but maybe, you know, if they think about it and they want to make that investment, they they will find different ways to do it. So whether it's a pause or even just a like, let me know we can talk, you know, it's not going to you're not going to get the answer on the call, right. Then you don't need to close and finalize that at the moment. And feeling desperate to do so. Actually, again, signal kind of a lack of confidence in your in your rate and in your your.

Heather: [00:14:52] Value and people can sense that desperation feel. Um, yeah. So I agree with that 100%. So so one of the, the thoughts that, you know, as I was thinking about preparing for this podcast and things like that is that one idea that I had is just, I mean, a lot of therapists put it right there on their website, so it's right there so people can find it. Another option is, is, you know, creating a flier or a handout, right when you meet with them. And by doing that, you're taking a little bit of the pressure off yourself because it's like they've already seen it or you you know, you let the flier or your website do the talking for you, at least some of it, you know.

Mor: [00:15:35] You know, that's an interesting idea. Heather. I don't know if 100% would make that recommendation. I'll tell you why. I think for me, sometimes people don't know what they want. They think they might be, you know, get the kind of potential clients who think they are just looking for the cheapest possible therapist, you know, and they're only comparing you based on on rate. But so what I like to do, I do no more than 15 minute consults when I'm talking to a potential client and I tell them, you know, I'll go over kind of where I work, how I work, my rates and everything. But first I want to see if we're even a fit. I want to know what you're coming to therapy for and I'll tell you a little bit about how I would work with you and see if you're interested in learning more. Um, and at that point, I can kind of give them a sense and a flavor for, for my work. So, for example, if it's a client that's interested in couples work, you know, there's a certain modality that has that is the only evidence based practice for couples work, which is EFT. And so I can tell them about that. I can tell them about how we structure it, how many sessions like what we do in each stage. And they can really get a sense of like, Wow, this person really knows what they're talking about. And so when it gets time to talking about the rate, they're not just comparing me on an apples to apples like number two number from their alternatives. They're also comparing how they feel talking to me and what they think their confidence about working with me. So that's why I would recommend unless you are like really just competing on rate. Yeah. Um, and you are on a race to the bottom, then I would recommend actually having that consult call, giving yourself a chance to put your best foot forward and then, and then hitting them with the cost because therapy is not cheap.

Heather: [00:17:27] Yeah. Yeah. And you bring up such a good point. I love that. Um, you know, and maybe with that in mind, maybe you don't. Maybe that's the challenge. Maybe you think to yourself, maybe it doesn't make sense to have it on my website. I know a lot of therapists like to have that on there and as a because they want to avoid that conversation. So but I agree with.

Heather: [00:17:48] You.

Heather: [00:17:49] That um, that having that conversation with them getting because therapy is very personal, you have to have someone that you mesh well with and. So having the consult first is important and then you can still have, you know, maybe you, you send them a link afterwards that or you have a flier afterwards. And so then they can see it on paper if they have questions later on or something like that.

Mor: [00:18:19] You actually bring up a really good point and want to roll back some of my pushback, which is it depends on where you are too. Like if I'm like building my practice and I'm trying to get more clients, I might be willing to have more of those conversations to pitch myself. And if you're already well established and you have a lot of clients and you're only looking for a trickle of serious folks who are within your budget, then maybe you don't mind that you might turn away those price sensitive folks and save yourself time on the 15 minute consult. So it's definitely depends. But I do think you actually remind me of something which I know we haven't gotten to yet, but we should chat at some point about the, the tool that I think we were talking about that many people embed into their website, the benefits checker that can kind of help clients assess for themselves if they can afford therapy by checking their out-of-network benefits and seeing what their true cost would be and saving the therapist from having to have that back and forth conversation. So I do think that's something else that folks can do.

Heather: [00:19:26] Yes, definitely. And I want to talk about that in just a second. First, one other thought actually as we were having this discussion is that, you know, not everyone's going to be for you, not everyone, whether that's personality, whether that's their own financial circumstances. Et cetera. Et cetera. Et cetera. Right. We could go off on a list. Um, so one thing I think and and let me know what's your thoughts on this? But as we were discussing, I thought would be that, you know, if I'm not the right fit, whether that be from a personality, um, or a financial here are some alternatives for you. And so never just like being like, nope, I'm not Right. Sorry. Goodbye. You know, you're on your way, but you're continuing to serve them in some capacity by saying, I understand that this might not be the right situation for you, but here are some alternatives that I that I might suggest. Here are some other people that might be a good fit for you. And so making.

Heather: [00:20:25] Love.

Heather: [00:20:25] Validations so that they're not just left in like a lurch feeling like, well, I don't know what to do. I still have my I still have a problem. I still need help. Who am I supposed to go to now?

Mor: [00:20:37] I think that's such a good point. And I actually have noticed that when I tell folks like some folks are like, Oh, that's a little out of my budget. Sometimes I tell folks, you know, think about it. If you want, I'd be happy to help connect you to someone else in my practice that could be more aligned with your budget. And I've been surprised that people really seem to take that as like, Wow, this person cares. They're not just out for like the max dollar. It builds trust. And if for me, most of the time it actually brings the, you know, the clients over the fence towards like, no, I actually do want to move forward working with you. So I agree. And even if they don't like it's, you know, it's a good it's a good practice. People are looking for help. And even if you're not the right fit, you can easily kind of have that referral list that you send them over.

Heather: [00:21:29] Yeah. And I think the big thing is at the end of the day, it's about serving them and helping them. And so whether that be that they work with you in therapy or they find someone else, you're still able to serve them by, you know, by giving to them freely.

Mor: [00:21:51] Exactly.

Heather: [00:21:53] And it doesn't. Yeah, it's one of those things. It doesn't hurt. And like you said, it builds that additional trust. They're like, wow, okay. They're not just there to maybe, you know, fill my their schedule or to add those kinds of things that might cross their mind. Instead, they're like, they truly care about me and truly care about helping me through this time in my life.

Mor: [00:22:18] 100%. 100%?

Heather: [00:22:20] Yeah. So.

Heather: [00:22:22] Um, and there are some differences. You know, one thing that we haven't really brought up is insurance versus private pay, you know, because.

Heather: [00:22:31] That's.

Mor: [00:22:31] A big.

Heather: [00:22:32] One.

Heather: [00:22:32] Yeah, Some clinics are take insurance except insurance, while others are private pay only. So having that discussion about money is different depending where you're at.

Mor: [00:22:48] Yeah. And a lot of people, you know, a lot of people do a mix of things. Some people take only insurance, some people are just private pay and then people are kind of there's that. A lot of people are actually trying to transition away from insurance and build their private pay practice. So actually, one thing we haven't touched on is, is my role. So I mentioned that I work in tech, but I lead therapy, experience and growth for men. And what we actually do is we help therapy artists grow their own private pay practice and do that by being able to step away from insurance while connecting their clients in a compassionate way to a service that will take care of all of that hassle for them and get them money back, get their clients money back on the sessions without putting the therapists on the hook.

Heather: [00:23:37] Yes.

Heather: [00:23:38] Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think what Montaya does is, is genius and great. It's so nice for. I feel like it's that that third option because for some it's like, okay, I'm only private pay and or else they're insurance. But it's kind of that third option where it's like I can I can be private pay, but I can still, you know, there's that way for clients to to be able to utilize their benefits of their health insurance.

Mor: [00:24:10] Yeah, exactly. Because I think a lot of times therapists, at least the therapists I've talked to, maybe think about it more in a black and white way. Like either I take on 100% of the insurance hassle and keep my rates like X and make it really accessible, or I'm totally leaving my clients in the lurch. If I tell them, you know, I'm not doing insurance anymore and they're going to just be hit with this huge extra cost. But the reality is there is that gray middle ground option, which is like, I'm not doing this, but here's a service like you can use. And a lot of people don't even know that they can be reimbursed with out-of-network benefits, like up to, you know, 80% of their session costs. So that, you know, knowing that actually makes clients more likely to to see the therapist of their choice instead of being on these like long wait lists and looking endlessly to find somebody who accepts insurance.

Heather: [00:25:06] Yeah.

Mor: [00:25:07] Within what they're looking for.

Heather: [00:25:09] Yes. Yeah.

Heather: [00:25:10] And then all of a sudden they're empowered because like you said, they're able to pick and not an insurance. They're able to pick the therapist that they really want or that they, you know, maybe they've done a consultation. They've decided, okay, well, from a financial standpoint, I just can't do this at this point. But then knowing that there is a way that they can be reimbursed allows them to instead of just being like, this is a therapist, you get now all of a sudden this is the therapist that you actually want to work with and and that can really help you in your life journey.

Heather: [00:25:49] Totally, totally.

Mor: [00:25:50] Think. I think that, you know, the other thing is, just like people have such an aversion to dealing with insurance, they, you know, they think about it like going to the DMV or getting like a cavity filled or something. It's just like, oh, you know, these clunky websites and having to remember your super bills.

Heather: [00:26:09] And I'm going to spend an hour.

Heather: [00:26:11] On hold with insurance company like, Oh my God, I.

Heather: [00:26:15] Just don't want to deal.

Mor: [00:26:16] With that. So, so when you're on a consult call and someone is like, Oh, I can't afford that. Um, you know, you have one of two options. You can either tell them like, okay, go call up your insurance and see if you have this thing that you maybe have never heard of called out-of-network benefits, and then see if you can understand what the information they give you and then call me back and maybe then we'll start working together and that, you know, you're just going to that's the likeliness of all of those things happening are pretty low. But then if you use, you know, like a benefits calculator, like the one Montaya has, you can say, you know, I don't I don't feel claims, but if you grab your insurance card, I can check real quick what your what your rate if you get if you're eligible for out of network benefits and then we just spit out like, okay, this is what this person's deductible is. This is how many sessions at your rate it'll take for them to meet their deductible. And then this is the percent they can expect back. And right then you can give them some concrete information and say, this is what your insurance estimate is, this is what you my rate would end up working out to for you. So even though I charge $200, you know, it would work out to 105 as the estimate and they can file your claims for you so you don't have to do anything. So at that point, our super user therapists say that like that kind of framing really helps bring people over the over the the fence and really across the finish line willing to work with you.

Heather: [00:27:51] Yeah, that's great. Um, so that actually brings us to our takeaway and challenge. Every podcast episode. We always have some kind of takeaways or challenges and we actually kind of have two for you today. Um, two.

Heather: [00:28:07] For the price of.

Heather: [00:28:07] One. Yes, two for the price of one. So you guys are getting bonus today. Um, so first off, the one is like, like Morehead said, Montoya has a benefits checker that you can embed on your website or that you can just use with while you're doing consultations, things like that. So talk a little bit about more about that.

Heather: [00:28:34] What you're. Yes.

Mor: [00:28:35] Yes. So as you mentioned, you can either just embed it into your website and folks when they go to your website before they even have a consult call with, you can just grab their insurance card, put in their information, be like, oh, okay, this would be what I would actually pay with this person or or you can complete it for them. When you're on on a call, you can just hit, check the website and enter in the information. So that's the benefits calculator. And then and then I don't know. I'm trying to think if there's another piece to that. Oh, and then the claim submission that we just do automatically if clients are interested but they don't have to, they can choose to file their own claims.

Heather: [00:29:16] Yeah. And you guys right now there is an opportunity for them to be able to try this out for free, correct?

Mor: [00:29:23] That's right. We are giving listeners to this podcast a one month free trial of the benefits calculator with the promo code TMS.

Heather: [00:29:34] And really the idea behind it is like, try it out for a month. See if it works and see if it increases your conversion. See, you know, you can see what the clients think of it. You can kind of, you know, play around with yourself, see if you like it. And then if it works, check.

Mor: [00:29:52] Your own card, your family's card.

Heather: [00:29:54] Right.

Mor: [00:29:54] It's totally unlimited use. So a lot of people have fun with it.

Heather: [00:29:58] Yeah.

Heather: [00:29:59] And if it helps your business to continue to grow, if it helps you to, you know, take away some of that, um, objections that you might receive from prospects or potential clients, then maybe that's something that you incorporate within your business. Um, and that leads us to kind of number two. So take away challenge number two that more and had kind of discussed was to create a talk, a script, talking points, something and that by creating a script that allows you to get more comfortable because we can all go based on a script. But if someone asks us like a question that we're not prepared for, you know, sometimes you don't know how to handle it. And so by creating a script about, you know, your payment, how payment is handled and you know what payment looks like, you are able to be confident in that conversation.

Mor: [00:31:02] 100%. And we will go ahead and share with you as well. Heather, the the script that we have gotten from a lot of therapists that works for them for explaining that they don't accept insurance but how they can support their clients in case folks want to adapt or use any part of that as well.

Heather: [00:31:21] Yes, definitely. So check that out in the podcast notes. That's going to be there as well. And you guys, check this out. I think the big takeaway also third takeaway I guess, is, is make a plan, get comfortable with yourself and your pricing model, whatever that is, because when you're comfortable with it, when you're confident and clear on it, then you will be able to, you know, set clear expectations from the beginning and working with clients. So anything else that you want to kind of add, throw in about min tire? Um, no.

Mor: [00:32:05] I think I think thank you so much for having me and, and folks can definitely feel free to reach out with any questions. We have a wonderful product specialist Maria who can walk you through things, do onboarding for you and answer any questions. So do reach out if you're interested.

Heather: [00:32:22] Perfect. Well, thank.

Heather: [00:32:23] You so much for being on this and I've enjoyed this conversation. Um, it's something that. Keeps coming. That comes up often, you know, as as we work with clients and things like that or as therapists work with clients. And so I hope it's of value to them, gives them some kind of little ideas, spark some ideas in their mind and how they can navigate this part of, of being either a business owner or even just any therapist. The conversation comes up whether you're a business owner or not. So thank you again so much for being here.

Heather: [00:32:59] Thank you.

Heather: [00:33:00] And guys, thank you again for listening to another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. Happy marketing you all.

Heather: [00:33:09] We're glad you could be here today.

Heather: [00:33:11] Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Heather: [00:01:49] And so email marketing is a very effective tool. And like I said, if you're not doing it, you may be missing out on huge opportunities to connect with your ideal clients. So there's a lot of benefits for email marketing. One is, is that you own the list of contacts, unlike social media, social media, when if you were to close your account, you would lose all those contacts. If for some reason the social media platform decided to up and quit one day, they're like, Yeah, we're done. I don't see that happening. But then you, you know, that's gone. It's just gone. All those contact. S And so while social media has a place, it is not the only type of marketing that you should be doing. And, and it may not even be the best type of marketing that you should be doing. It really depends on your business, your following, because it's great to have followers on social media, but if there are other clinics, unless they're sending you referrals, they may not be, you know, you might still not be connecting with your ideal client. So that's one of those questions you have to ask yourself Who is on your social media list? Who is following you? If they're not your ideal client, then again, maybe that's not the place for you. Um, but in our last episode that I recorded about repurposing content, you can use email marketing and social media hand in hand.

Heather: [00:03:24] That's the good news. So let's, let's again, let's talk about some of these benefits. So you own the list of contacts. Um, there's a higher return on investment, typically with email marketing. In fact, HubSpot, which is a CRM for marketing, says that they did a study and they reported that there is a 4,200% return on investment. That's huge, guys. And why why exactly is that? Because email marketing is is relatively inexpensive. So. The biggest expense in email marketing is, is typically if you hire someone, then there's that, obviously. But if you're doing it on your own, the biggest expense is your time. Um and so 4,200% return on investment. I don't know. That might mean that you might need to look at email marketing. You might be, like I said, missing something. Um, that is also 3,600% higher than the average return on investment for paid advertising. And paid advertising would be like Google ads. Social media ads. You know, any kind of ads that you are putting out there. So, wow, that's huge, guys. Again, you are getting a huge return on investment for doing it. Other benefits are that you're warming the relationship. When people go to your website, they may or may not be ready to book an appointment if they are not booked, ready to book an appointment appointment, what comes next? Do they just like, Oh, I don't want to book an appointment and they leave.

Heather: [00:05:15] I mean, you're missing an opportunity right there. Um, I tell clients and this is from Donald Miller Storybrand that your call to action button, which is like book an appointment or something like that, is asking someone. To marry you. It's that commitment level. It's a little bit more. Whereas if you have a way of collecting emails, that's a little bit more like, Hey, you want to go on a date, let's just try this out. Let's see how we feel about it. And so this is an opportunity for you to nurture relationships, to build rapport, authority. All of those things can be done through email marketing. So like I said, lots of benefits come with email marketing. Um, so let's break this down a little bit more and get into it. There are different types of email marketing for there's, I mean, there's many different types, but the types that I want to focus on today is the sales email and then the nurture email and really how you decide who gets what email comes down to understanding your goals. So if you are wanting to retain current clients, then a nurture email is the best email to be sent out to them. If you are wanting to gain new clients and nurture that relationship with with new prospects, then you're going to want to start with the sales email.

Heather: [00:06:51] And and typically how it works is the sales email has 5 to 6 emails that go out and we've got a blog post on it. I will share the link in in our show notes for that so that you can understand exactly what each one of those sales emails should contain in them. But some of them are an opportunity to overcome objections, a paradigm shift. You know, really when I say sales email, it's again nurturing the relationship. We're not just like, Hey, you want to buy, let's do this now. We are building a relationship, a rapport with your prospects. And it's not even till the last email that we really ask for the sale that we're like, Now's the time. You know, let's get the commitment. The nice thing about the sales email series is typically if someone does not. If they continue through the 5 to 6 emails and they haven't booked an appointment yet, then you would bring them over to your nurture email. Your nurture emails are more to educate. They bring a lot of authority in and it's again, you can continue warming that relationship if they're a prospect or. Bringing value to current clients. And that's where that comes in. And as far as how often those are sent out, that's really based on who you're understanding, your client and your goals. If you are wanting to if you're wanting to, the sales emails go out pretty quick, pretty within 2 to 3 days.

Heather: [00:08:38] Some will be like once a week. That would be the max time length in between emails that I would suggest. Nurture emails can be anywhere from once a week, two weeks to once a month. And and the nurture emails like are not only for nurturing the relationship, but they're also to remind people that you still exist. And that's where it's great for your prospects. Because if they are, we're on the fence about working with you and then they receive your 5 or 6 emails, sales emails and then they you drop them, they just go about their life and they forget about you. But having these nurture emails will continue that relationship. It will continue to bring value to them. And and I'm sure you guys understand this any time you bring value to someone, especially when it's of a free value, they're going to love you. They're if it's if it's great value, they're going to even if they don't become your client, they may tell someone about you. So that's the great news is is value creates a relationship. They rely on you for information. After a while, they're like, well, you got to go and see this person. They're amazing. You should you should join their email list or or, you know, if they talk to someone and they're like, Yeah, I'm really struggling with this problem. Just they'll be like, Oh my gosh.

Heather: [00:10:06] So and so I received their emails and it's it's great information. Just go book an appointment with them. So it really does create. Um, it's a great way of marketing and, and it's pretty low risk in that sense. As far as investment, as far as, um, you know, time that you have to continuously put in it. Sometimes I think people think email marketing are like so overwhelmed I can't do it. But it's, it's really, it doesn't have to be especially if you're repurposing content in your nurture campaign or your nurture emails. Like it doesn't have to be this thing, this big thing. So how do we get started with email marketing? Well, there's a couple different things. You know, first off, what I said before, understand your goals. What is the goal of your email marketing? Are you trying to gain new clients? Are you trying to retain clients? Once you have those goals set, then you can you can move on from there. The next step really is is deciding on some kind of email marketing software, some kind of platform that you want to use. There's there's a variety of different ones. Some of the ones that that I tell clients about are mailerlite, constant contact, active campaigns, MailChimp, those are some of just a handful, or you can use a CRM. So if you have a sales tool like HubSpot, you can use them for your email marketing as well.

Heather: [00:11:42] Um, so again, picking the tool that you want to use this tool is going to be a way to collect and store emails. It's also going to be a way to send emails and my favorite automate. So you're not going in there and like sending an email every week? Nope. The beauty, especially of the sales emails, is that you can go in and write 5 to 6 emails, get them all set up and then they are automated. They go out every single time someone signs up for your emails, they just go, you know, and you tell it how often to go out. So it's like, okay, I want it to go out every three days. Does it for you and you and and it's marketing for you while you sleep. I mean, people could be like signing up at 2 a.m. and you're sleeping your cozy little bed and there's no there's no work involved. Once you get it set up, I do suggest that you go in and about every six months or so that you review all the content, make sure it's up to date, make sure it's still applies to your ideal clients. Also, you know, like if you feel like you're not getting the the results that you want, maybe you need to adjust something. Maybe you've learned something, something that's of greater value to your ideal clients and that, you know, so six months you go in and you review it, but not a lot of work.

Heather: [00:13:13] Same thing with your nurture emails. Nurture emails can be anywhere from 26 to or 12, 12, 26 or 52 emails. And it really that that's based on feedback. It's based on understanding, finding your your ideal client on deciding how often you want to send them because you don't want to feel spammy. Right? You want to send them. Great. And valuable stuff. Valuable stuff that's that they're going to want to continue to read, that's going to to in some way benefit their life. So, um, and again, those nurture emails, you can write them once, review them every six months or you decide that you're going to write for a month or however many a month. So and then you just go back to it every so often and you review them and they are set up ready for you. This is, I mean, great. And it doesn't have to be new content. It doesn't have to be. You go and take posts that worked on social media. You go take content from a blog and all of a sudden you will be surprised at how quickly you can create nurture emails. Nurture emails aren't that long. They they literally could be two paragraphs. So it doesn't have to be that long to create value in someone's life. Um, so we, we've got the email marketing software set up.

Heather: [00:14:50] You're creating, you create something of value to get people to sign up. So that's, that's really the first step before you create the emails is you got to get people to sign up for your email list. What? So that's where the lead generator comes in, creating something. It can be a five minute video. It can be. You know, some kind of pdf could be a journal, like something for mindfulness. I mean, just understand your ideal client, sit down, brainstorm a bunch of different things that you think that would be valuable to them. Um, one of the things I say is what are the questions you get asked the most? Not about your business, like the day to day operations, like what time you're open, Do you offer telehealth, whatever? No. But what are the questions about the services you provide that you get asked the most and then create a lead generator about it? Um, so that is, is kind of the gateway into your email marketing. That's what's going to get people to sign up for that, create a lead generator value and then nurture these relationships. So, um. We've got that done. We've got the email, and then just make a plan like what you want your emails to look like, what you want to have in your emails. We've kind of gone through that a little bit. How many emails you want, the frequency of the emails, all of that.

Heather: [00:16:23] So the four steps understand your goals, set up an email marketing software, create something of value, a lead generator that are going to get people to actually sign up and then make a plan for your sales campaign and your nurture campaign. If I was going to pick which one I would start with first. Again, it's based on your goals. You know, if you're like wait listed for six months, maybe, maybe it's not about the sales email list. Maybe it's more about creating a nurture email campaign for your current clients. Um, but on the other side and that thing, the beauty of it is, is if you don't have one done right away, you can still have people signing up for something. Just make sure that they're receiving emails, communication from you in some way from the moment that they sign up for that email list. Okay, guys. So that is email Marketing 101. I hope that it helps you to feel excited about it because I mean, again, the return on investment can be great, the results can be amazing and it can be a huge benefit for your marketing and for your business, your practice. Um, if you want to know how to get people on your wait list. Create email marketing if you want to. If you want to have a wait list. Email marketing. If you want to send out some new offerings, some new service, let's say that you are now providing some additional service that you hadn't done before.

Heather: [00:18:02] Guess how you get the news out? Email marketing. This is direct access to your clients, your prospects, everyone. So. And even if you're doing something cool in office, email marketing, right? Okay, so here's the challenge for today. Today I want you to. Write down a list of goals. What do you hope to accomplish in email marketing? And then look for some kind of email marketing software. I've given you four different options. You can pick one of those, but look which one fits. Some of them will have introductory they're free until you have x amount of people signed up for your email list or you're sending out, you know, X amount of emails, a certain number. So do your research. Figure out which one works best for you and your needs. And then. Get going on it because it will be it'll be very rewarding to see it, to see this kind of flourish and blossom from there. So. Okay, guys, this is another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. I am so excited for you guys to start email marketing and happy marketing y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Barry: [00:00:55] So good to be here. Heather. Thanks for inviting me.

Heather: [00:00:58] Yeah, I am. I was actually really excited. It's always a great conversation with you, Barry, so I'm excited for today's conversation and then just, you know, helping our listeners to to maybe take some, you know, little tidbits from this conversation we have and, and apply it to their own businesses. So let's start off really talking let's talk about, you know, kind of your experience in counseling, how you got started and then how you started your business to.

Barry: [00:01:27] Yeah. Well, gosh, this is a topic I could talk all day about. We have, in fact, talked about counseling so much. That's how we got here. Um, so I have been married for almost 24 years. Next month. Uh, we got. Thank you very much. We got married super young, 19 years old. We were babies. Um, and, you know, marriage, as we're all very aware, is difficult at times. It's awesome. It's wonderful. And there's so much to learn. About ten years into my marriage, I realized that there was a lot that I didn't know. There was a lot that wasn't going well. And so my wife and I ended up in counseling and the experience was super life changing for me. And I kind of came out of that therapy experience like thinking if I could, you know, give my life to helping other couples in their relationships, that that's something I would totally be open to. Um, and couldn't let go of the thoughts. So I went back to school. I got my degree in marriage and family therapy. And so that's what I specifically do. I work with couples, especially couples, in kind of extreme distress or crisis. And my business is blue sky intensive therapy. So we do a type of therapy called intensive therapy, which is not the typical hour a week therapy. It's kind of like a therapy a day at a time or a week at a time, just depending on what people need.

Heather: [00:02:59] Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things that I love about your story, Barry, is that you actually didn't really want to go to counseling, right? You were.

Barry: [00:03:07] Not.

Heather: [00:03:08] You were like, being dragged by your. I think there was some claw marks on the wall as you were going in.

Barry: [00:03:14] You would love my wife if she was here. You would love her because she's so smart. She would say, I think we need to go get counseling, Barry. And I'd say, No, I think we're fine. And she'd say, But there's so many things we couldn't talk about. And I'd say, That's fine. I think it's actually normal. A lot of couples can't talk about things. And she eventually said, you know, Well, I'm going to go to counseling. Will you at least sit in the room? And I said, Well, of course, if that's what good husbands do, I will do that and you know the rest of the story.

Heather: [00:03:42] Yeah, definitely so. And I love that you took something from your life and then created a career out of it just because you realized what an impact and it made for your marriage and how that could impact others, too. I mean, because I agree, marriage is hard. I'll be 25 years in September. Hey, congrats. Yeah, we're Man, it's been a second. Yeah but but yeah. So I definitely agree that marriage can be a challenge and there are some ups and downs, hills and valleys and there's periods of, you know. Our moments. Even there, my favorite person in the moments you're like, Yeah, I don't know about that person so much.

Barry: [00:04:25] And there's some times where we need help. We don't know what to do, we don't know how to fix something. And so needing needing help is very normal. And having the guts to ask for help is a big deal.

Heather: [00:04:39] So yeah, what I love about. Oh, sorry, what were you going to say?

Barry: [00:04:43] Just feel lucky when people reach out and ask for help. I just feel very lucky to to be asked. It's a it's a big honor. Yeah.

Heather: [00:04:52] And so how long has blue sky intensive therapy been in business?

Barry: [00:04:58] So I started in the middle of Covid. So 20, 20 ish, you know, 2019, 2020. So in the therapy world where I live, um. When Covid hit and everybody was locked down. Um, the need for counseling services exploded. And so quickly, all of us counselors went from no waiting lists or small waiting lists to long waiting lists and months of like not being able to get people in. So in the middle of Covid, I had such a long waiting list and more and more people reaching out. And so I had a good friend of mine who did intensive therapy for individuals. He would work with a client for three days at a time, and they would do trauma recovery therapy. And so I talked to him about it and I said, you know, I would love to figure out how to do something like that for couples. And so I my myself and with his help, we developed a program that I created to be able to work with couples, and I would begin to work with them either for a day just so they could find some relief and stabilization while they wait to get into another counselor. Or for the couples that were really bad in crisis, we developed a week long program that couples could come to, and it's kind of like the E.R. or ICU experience in the medical field. They come in their relationship. You know, it's it's dying. And so we work to stabilize it. We work to give it a chance to live and thrive again.

Heather: [00:06:41] Yeah, definitely. I think that's pretty amazing what you guys offer. And I love the idea that you you know, it's kind of like an E.R., an ICU, um, where they come in to to get that immediate attention, that immediate help. And then from there, they can at least have some kind of plan on how to move forward or what they want to do with their marriage in the long run. So I think that's so great. Um, and I would imagine I would love to see some statistics. I'm sure they're still working on some of that. But statistics on how many couples realize there was an issue during Covid because they were stuck in the same house together.

Barry: [00:07:23] Absolutely.

Barry: [00:07:24] What seemed like manageable, like always thought about like a small cracks in Covid. Those small cracks just became extreme riffs and. Yeah. And because they're stuck in the house and they're stuck around each other. Those little riffs became really big issues.

Heather: [00:07:43] Yeah, absolutely. So. So you've been doing this for three years. Your business has been established for three years. And like you said, you do intensive couples therapy and trauma therapy. And you kind of talked a little bit about that niche and how you decided to work within that niche. Um, so let's talk a little bit more about how it how it works. Um, how do people find you? What is the process, some of those things?

Barry: [00:08:16] Yeah.

Barry: [00:08:17] Well, one of the things that I so, you know, things like Covid or things like really big kind of earth shaking experiences, they can really awaken us or there's an opportunity that lies there that can kind of awaken us to like, thinking about something that could help others, especially in the human services industry. Um, that maybe is doesn't exist or there's not too much of. So for me, you know, there the idea of intensive therapy, it's very rare. It's not in it. You can't find it in every state. For us in Idaho, from what I know, for professional counseling services, we're the only couple that offer intensive therapy in Idaho. So you'd have to travel out of Idaho to find some of these services. So Covid kind of opened my eyes to the need of people needing something soon, sooner than later, and trying to help this crisis from getting worse. And so, you know, for for people that are listening in your line of work, if there's like, um, really difficult times, those are often laden with opportunities to begin to think and consider, um, what aspects of their industry they could really silo into and drill down into and, and develop something that could be really beneficial to the industry. So specifically counseling. You know, counseling has only been around really since the 1960s. So we're in our infancy. So kind of the standard of an hour of therapy a week became kind of the standard protocol. And there's no research and there's nothing that says like that is ideal. That's what people are best impacted by. So I kind of in those moments just felt like, well, the statistics are the evidence aren't telling me that I have to stick to this thing.

Barry: [00:10:20] So if I could do whatever, what would I do? Um, and I found that I don't have to carry a whole caseload of clients if I'm just seeing a couple a day at a time just to get them stable so they can get in with their counselor that they're on their waiting list for. So I began to do that, letting go of my hourly weekly clientele, making space a day at a time to help couples. And I started. And recognizing like, wow, a day with a couple, we can accomplish months of work in a day. And they felt instant relief after a day of that for the most part. And and then, you know, I started encountering couples that needed even more. They were even more in extreme crisis. Hence the need for developing kind of a week long protocol or program to help them. So it was really the the situation of Covid and what was driving kind of business per se, that really helped me kind of begin to open my mind to consider what we could do to help more people, to really help what was going on, to get people help sooner. And, you know, the the kind of the slogan that we came up with for my business is get better faster, because that's what it all comes down to. I hate to see people in suffering. And so if there's a way we can help them sooner and get them feeling better sooner, I would love to give my life and time to that.

Heather: [00:11:45] Yeah, think that's so great. So wonderful. And I love that you talk about the benefit that as you have done it, as you've niched down it has allowed you to become more efficient and to just to do your job better, to see results faster, to do some of those, you know, those benefits you really see by doing one thing instead of, you know, branching out to every single thing or having a certificate or education and everything, it's like by focusing in you're able to to better serve. And one of the things also is that it allows you to be very specific in the kind of people you want to work with, too. So what is kind of your process in deciding who you work with and who you don't work with? Because that's one of the big parts of having a niche.

Barry: [00:12:38] Yes, correct. You're so right. You have to say no to a lot of good in order to to be able to be great. So saying no to a lot of those opportunities that you could do and just saying yes to the one thing that you really are feeling called to or dedicated to or really feeling strongly about. That was a definite a moment. I can remember the moment where I realized like, I'm going to have to say no to a lot in order to say yes to this one thing. And so that's something that's a real pivotal moment that everyone has to go through to get to these places to niche down. So in the process of developing this, I knew that there are going to be some cases that a day is not going to be valuable for. And so looking at and using the the protocols that my the therapy that I already do and I'm just doing the normal, you know, hourly weekly therapy that a lot of people get, I'm just using it in intensive doses. So I'm using the same criteria that we do in regular therapy to know if candidates are couples are a good candidate for this program. So, um, I'm looking to see if there's, you know, diagnoses that couples are coming in with, if they, you know, if I'm the 10th counselor that they've seen, There's some of these things that I watch for in the consultation that help me know if if a couple is a good match for what I'm doing or not.

Barry: [00:14:14] You know, if a couple comes in and and one of the spouses is still actively engaged in an affair, like what I'm doing is not going to be great for them. Yeah. And so we so when a couple reaches out to me, we have an hour consultation. I listen to a little bit about what's going on. I try to get a sense for what the struggles are and then I tell them a little bit about what I do and we talk about if what I do would be a good fit for what they're going through. We talk about the kind of therapy that I do and use and, um, and so a lot of couples self-select, you know, they determine, yes, this is good, this would be good for us or no, this wouldn't be good for us. And then I'll also have kind of some things in my head that help me know whether this couple would be a good fit or not for the kind of therapy that I offer.

Heather: [00:15:06] Yeah, I absolutely love that you have kind of some criteria and really, if you weren't working within a niche that might be that might be difficult to come up with that criteria. But because, you know, I have one day or five days to work with this couple, these are the things that I need to see. This is where I need to see them in their marriage or in their journey in order to actually be beneficial to them. And one of the things that I absolutely love that you said is you had to say you have to say no to a lot of good things in order to really do the things that serve you and help you. And I mean, I think anyone in any in any industry that can resonate. It with, you know, and I'm in marketing and that definitely resonates with me. It's hard to say no sometimes to the the tempting things or the things that you're like, Oh, that could be kind of fun or exciting or maybe maybe I should try it. Yep. Um, what do you do to stay kind of true to yourself in that?

Barry: [00:16:06] Well, I think a lot of us councilors, we would guess a lot of my friends that are in the counseling field, they're really, um, people pleasers. So we are, um, we are we have so much empathy and so much compassion that when somebody comes along and they need some help and it's not necessarily in my niche, there's definitely things inside that say, Oh, you can let that go for now and help them. So surrounding myself with the right people, my business partner, my wife, um, my colleagues, you know, making sure that they are there to support me so that I have a supervisor, I talk with my supervisor about my cases and my consults so she can help me, like when I'm tempted to people, please, and to let go of my boundaries and cross them to help somebody that might not be in my niche. I have people in my corner that can help me see it and help me. Um, because I'm not the only answer. So they remind me, Hey, there's plenty of other good therapists that can be a huge help for them, so let's get them connected to them so that you can stay in your lane and keep doing what you're doing. So, you know, it's not that I'm letting a person down or it's not that I'm disappointing them. I'm actually doing a better thing in getting them to connected to somebody who's great at what they do and that can help them best.

Heather: [00:17:29] Yeah, and I love that. And that's one of the things I was going to say. I'm sure that having some kind of. You know, list of people who can help with this circumstance or that circumstance or who are professionals who specialize in those areas is helpful for you as well. Just so that if you are tempted, you know, to. Yes. I mean, I your counselor, it's not just that your people pleasers that like you said, but it's that you want to help everyone that's why you went into the profession and it is very noble and honorable. But you also have to recognize that you might not be the best person for that. Um, you know, you might not be the best counselor to help that person.

Barry: [00:18:09] Yeah, I think great counselors have great referral lists, like they have people they're connected to that are great at what they do. And so when people come along needing help, we know what we're great at and we can also refer them to somebody who's great at whatever they need.

Heather: [00:18:26] Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's such a great little. I'm going to like put that on the wall or something like, thank you for that. That was just very insightful. Um, Forbes actually says a focus business concept has numerous benefits, including simple and streamlined operations and less direct competition, thus allowing you to be a big fish in a small pond. A clear focus means you can focus your audience targeting, targeting, strategy, defining and excelling with a special skill set and knowledge in a particular industry allows you to identify, claim and build on your market expertise. And I love that. It just talks about so many benefits that you're able to to really show how you're different. This is who we are. This is what we do. This is the only thing that we do. So there's less direct competition. You can create very streamlined operations. You're not having to create a process for that and a process for this. And, you know, filling spread thin and and you really are able to focus on that one target audience, which again, benefits them and it benefits you from a marketing standpoint because instead of speaking to a blurred crowd or the masses you are speaking to, you know, the Millers or whatever, whatever couple. So you're speaking to very specific couples.

Barry: [00:19:57] Yeah, I, I, I'm a hunter. I'm from the Idaho Northwest area where we hunt and fish a lot. It's a concept that's like using a shotgun versus using a rifle, a shotgun where we're like shooting from the hip. We're hoping to like hit something, throwing it out there versus a rifle, which we know what we're shooting for. We know we're aiming at and we know how to hit the target. So, yes, absolutely. And might I just plug for just a minute that if you're struggling to find clarity in that for your business, somebody like Heather, who's wonderful at asking questions and helping you find clarity, which she did with me as we put together our my website, it was great because it helped me find clarity on even more who is my target, how do I reach them? And it was just incredibly helpful.

Heather: [00:20:54] Oh, well, thank you so much. I'm glad it helped and I love that. Just kind of working with clients to to find that clarity because again, it's very you haven't target, you haven't aim, you know, what you're shooting for and can move forward. And that actually helps me or um, you know, kind of from a marketing standpoint, uh, you know, obviously having a very clear and defined message or I guess first off, having a very clear and defined audience helps you to create the clear and defined message that's going to resonate with them. It's something very specific. They're going to be like, Oh, like he's talking to me. How did he know? Yeah, you know, that's that's where it gets exciting. Is that. Go ahead. I would say is that they they were like, he gets me.

Barry: [00:21:47] Yeah they feel seen by you. They feel heard by you. And you know, if you're listening and you want to start a business or you are a business owner and you're like struggling to find that clarity, I'm just want to advocate one more time because I didn't have a ton of clarity. I knew kind of in general who I wanted to reach and how I wanted to go about it. But people like Heather can help you clarify, find clarity on knowing what the audience really is, who the audience really is, and how to market them and speak to them in really, really crystal clear terms and and putting the message on the bottom shelf for them. So I would just say, listen, you don't have to know how to. Do it all. People like Heather are wonderful at coming alongside and helping you with that.

Heather: [00:22:38] Yeah, and we definitely had did some great work together where there was a lot of aha moments for both of us. Yes, because it's, you know, just having a conversation, figuring things out. So I appreciate that, that, uh, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. Um, HubSpot says by focusing on a small audience, you can use your resources to find customers who align with your product. These people need your product the most and are most likely to convert. And that's one of the big ideas, too, is that instead of. Wasting money on Google ads that just go out to anyone within this region or whatever. And I'm not saying Google ads are a waste, but if you're not using if you don't know who you want to, you know, target, if you don't know what exactly you want to say, then yeah, it can be wasteful. You can be literally throwing money out the window. Um, so definitely making sure that you know, who you're talking to is going to help both with your marketing and your advertising budget so that you're using money efficiently, you're marketing, you know, budget efficiently and really can target those that are interested and need your services the most.

Barry: [00:23:55] Yeah.

Heather: [00:23:55] So I think the big idea is that by doing that, by creating a niche, you're better able to help. People versus just kind of like, Yeah, I did good. I helped someone. Like there's I don't know. Do you feel that way? You're like, I absolutely was able to help this couple more than I would have been had I just been doing, you know, general counseling or something like that.

Barry: [00:24:20] Yeah, absolutely. Like in the counseling field, for example. So, you know. Counseling. The field of counseling is growing leaps and bounds. Mean 20. Think the recent statistic was it's growing 20 some percent a year. Mean we have people coming into the counseling field in huge numbers. So you have like 100% of these counselors. Well, how many of the counselors are actually doing couples therapy? Well, if you look at the statistics, you know, maybe 25%, 1 in 4 counselors will do couples counseling. So already right there, I'm down to a small group of counselors in the field that are working with couples. And then out of that, if you look at, well, how many of them will work with a couple more than an hour a week? Oh, then that number drops dramatically to maybe single digits of how many how many counselors would actually work with a couple for longer than an hour a week. So now I've put myself in the single digits in the counseling field. So when a couple comes along and they know, Oh, we're in trouble and we know we need more than an hour a week, who they go looking for is a very select few.

Barry: [00:25:27] So I am a name in a very select few, and I'm sure that the counseling field is just one example of what that's like in other people's industries, where there are different niches that make your name one of a few that people will reach out to. And by doing this and being open and this is where I just want to say like this does entail risk. I mean, letting go of my weekly client load to be able to believe that a couple will see me for a day. That was a risk that you have to step out in faith in some of these ways. But the payoff is so great. I would just encourage anyone who's listening take the risk, step out in faith because these risks really have a huge payoff, not just from like better, you know, being more successful in business, but like the satisfaction and the fulfillment that comes personally when you take a risk and you step out in faith and step into this niche. I can't. I can't tell you how rich the satisfaction and fulfillment is when you do that.

Heather: [00:26:32] Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Because it definitely there's something to be said when you niche down, you know, all of a sudden you're doing something that you're very passionate about. That's kind of why I went from just general marketing to niching down to working with therapy, you know, those within therapy industry or allied health professionals because. That was that was the people that I loved to work with. You know, all it takes is one. And all of a sudden you're like, ooh, this is this is fun. This is what lights me up in the morning. And when you are excited about your work, your clients benefit from it.

Barry: [00:27:08] Absolutely.

Heather: [00:27:10] And so that's a huge benefit for them as well because you're just going to be excited to be there, excited to help them, excited to, you know, really give everything to help those who are, you know, your clients well.

Barry: [00:27:25] And I can imagine for You mean now you just have to become an expert in the therapy world marketing instead of like becoming an expert in whoever comes your way and their world like that makes your life so much easier because you now just have to be focused on this one area instead of every area, which I have to have to think that's a game changer for you.

Barry: [00:27:50] Absolutely.

Heather: [00:27:51] It does make a big a big difference. And so I really like what you said about, you know, you've got to be brave. You got to step out in faith. Um, I actually just did a social media post video that said kind of that same thing where it was like. Live on, like outside of your comfort zone? Just right outside of it, just on the outlining, you know, just kind of push out that comfort zone more and more because the more you push out of the comfort, the more you're going to have those benefits, the more you're going to build the life you want, the more you're going to, you know, do work that you're passionate about, all those things. And, um, so I totally agree with you is to live your life just outside of comfort.

Barry: [00:28:35] So good.

Heather: [00:28:36] Yeah. Yeah. So. Well, guys, um, if you have, I'm going to just make a little plug for. For Barry, since he was so nice about, you know, plug in my business. But, um, if you have clients who are in need or prospects that, you know, if you've got a waitlist and need immediate help. Within their marriage and this could be a beneficial to them. Please reach out to Barry at Blue Sky Intensive Therapy. He is amazing at what he does and in helping his clients. So anything else you want to add today, Barry?

Barry: [00:29:13] Thank you so much for letting me come. I like I said, I love talking about this stuff. So another chance, another opportunity to talk about how we help the world we live in more and how do we help it faster and better. I'm just thankful people like you that are willing to have these conversations and make space and time for this. And thanks for letting me be a part of it.

Heather: [00:29:34] Yeah, well, thank you very much for being on the episode on this episode. And I think there's a lot of amazing tidbits and, and think food for thought for people on this episode that, you know, if they're kind of teetering on should I niche down, should I not, this may be the thing that that helps them make that decision, especially when you point out not just the pros, but that there is risk to it. But are you willing to take that risk? Is the risk worth it? You know, um, all of those things to to get to that next step. So.

Barry: [00:30:09] It's a good word.

Heather: [00:30:10] Yeah, definitely. Thank you guys for joining us on another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Christine: [00:01:33] Thank you, Heather. I'm excited to be on the podcast and tell you a little bit more about what we do. So why don't I start with a quick background on myself and then happy to share a little bit more about the business.

Heather: [00:01:47] Yeah, I would love for you to tell us because really your, your backstory or is really how Ming-tai came to be. So it's important to hear about, you know, just kind of your story and, and how it created Minthea Yeah.

Christine: [00:02:06] Well I so I guess a quick background on me. I've been interested in mental health for a really long time. Um, I unfortunately went to a high school with a lot of mental health issues in Palo Alto, and I just saw how much it could really impact people's lives. And so I've been really passionate about mental health ever since. Uh, my background is actually in tech, so I studied computer science at Princeton and I ended up going to product management. And so I was a product manager at Google for several years before I left in 2021 to start Montaya to try to make a difference in the mental health space, because I wanted to work on something that was more personally meaningful to me and something that I wanted to build, something that I would be proud of. And really what we want to do is our whole mission at Montaya is to make high quality mental health care more accessible. And there's a lot of ways to do that. And so the specific reason we chose to be where we what we to choose to do what we do is because we wanted to see if we could find a solution that bridges tech and mental health in a way where the incentives are really aligned with providers and their clients. We wanted to sort of help both. There are obviously other solutions out there that, you know, are like really great for the client or really great for the provider, but sometimes it's not always great for both. And so that was something that's really core to what we do. We wanted to create a win win situation for both therapists and their clients. And so specifically what we do is because most therapists, a lot of therapists don't want to deal with insurance companies.

Christine: [00:03:48] It's confusing. And, you know, there's some they don't always pay the best. And so a lot of therapists want to be able to just, you know, do their work and help their clients without having to deal with any of the billing stuff and insurance companies. And therefore, a lot of therapists are private pay. And so sort of what we were thinking about was, well, given that a lot of therapists don't want to take insurance, how can we actually try to bridge the gap so that even if you don't take insurance, we're able to still make therapy a little bit more accessible for your clients. And this is sort of where out-of-network benefits come in. A lot of people don't realize that they have what's called out-of-network benefits with their insurance, where you can save up to 80% on therapy, you can get reimbursed up to 80% of your money back on a therapy session, even if your therapist is private pay. And so because there's not this there's a lack of education around this most other, you know, medical professionals or just people in medicine, a lot of doctors do take insurance. People aren't educated on the benefits of out-of-network benefits that they can use to get reimbursed for therapy. And with that, a lot of times the cost ends up being much closer to a copay for a client. And so what we have is this, you know, awesome solution where we help people understand and utilize their out-of-network benefits so that therapists can attract more private pay clients because their clients are saving money on therapy. And so it's a win win for both.

Heather: [00:05:21] Yeah, I love this so much. One of the things that I mean, there's just so many things to love about it. Um. You know, I really feel like this is a win win, like you say, because, you know, the insurance system is broken. Let's face it, I'm going to be political for half a second. The insurance system is broken. Okay. I said it. No matter what side of the line. We I think a lot of people were coming to this realization. There are some problems in our health care system and I get y while y sorry, um. Insurance or why therapists don't want to work with insurance. It's a nightmare. I mean, not only that, who has time to work with it and then fight with insurance companies. And then you fight with them only to receive a small portion of what you know you need to be paid to run a practice. And then on the other side of the coin, you know, there's clients who are really struggling. They know they they need help, but they're limited in their options because if they just can't afford it, if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. Right. There's just that's all there is to it. And so I love that you've really, like you said, bridge this gap between them and taken out, you know, working with the actual insurance company. So one of the things that when we were talking beforehand that you talked about is how you kind of came up with this idea. And I love that you really spent the time to research and look into it beforehand. Can you talk more about that?

Christine: [00:07:00] Yeah, that is a really good question. So coming from someone with a tech background, I'm aware that I didn't want to be one of those people that was like, let me just throw tech at sort of these problems and just, you know, presume that I understand everything in this space. And so I really wanted to do my research, and I ended up talking to, I think, over 100 mental health providers just to get their perspective, because I have heard that a lot of times providers are not being accounted for as much in some of these tech solutions that are being built out. And so I really wanted to take my time to understand like what are their pain points, What can we build out that can accommodate both the provider and make their lives easier, but also the client? And and that is really key to sort of what how we sort of created Montoya And we just really wanted to meet therapists where they are and not, you know, create a situation where it's like, oh, let's help you make all these crazy changes to your practice.

Christine: [00:08:01] In order to do X, Y, Z, You don't. It's super simple. All you have to do is just confirm a session has happened and we can automatically submit claims for clients. We automatically check benefits for them as well. And so you can kind of think of us as almost this sort of like automated biller that you have. That's not it's not, but it's a much more lightweight solution. You don't have to hire anyone. A lot of therapists. What's unique about therapists is that a lot of therapists are in private practice and there's not many other industries where everyone's running their own business. Like everyone is an entrepreneur, everyone's a business owner, and a lot of times people are in, you know, solo practices or really small practices. And so we sort of want to be there to help out on all the. You know, how do we basically help you? Leverage the benefits of insurance without actually having to deal with it, because we can deal with all of that. And so that's sort of where we where we want to meet you, where you are.

Heather: [00:08:58] Yeah. Really, as business owners, you know, any business really, But with a therapist, they were so many hats. If they're the solopreneur or even if they're just if they're still seeing clients and running a practice, there's a lot of hats. They were there's a lot of stuff to do. And so when they work with insurance, that's just one more. I mean, you really have to hire someone full time to deal with that if you're going to be, you know, accepting insurance, whereas private pay, you know, it has its own set of problems. And so you coming in and just being the simple solution for them. I love that you found this this pain point in running a business, a practice, and then said, well, what's the solution? How can we bring in tech to make it easier for the therapist, to make it easier for the client? And and really help everyone win.

Christine: [00:09:55] Yeah, exactly. I think that's something that we're always we're very customer centric and we even even now it's been, you know, two years since since we've started and we're still checking in constantly with our customers being like, what types of features do you want? How is your experience going? We do focus groups still with a lot of our therapists just to make sure we sort of always have. You know, have the voice of the customer as we continue to develop our product. But people love the simplicity and it's so easy. They're like, I can't believe how easy it is to use. I'm happy to share a little bit more about the product and exactly what we do, if that's helpful. But we basically have two main parts to our product. So we really think about it from a therapist's perspective of how can this fit into their practice. So the first thing that we came up with was this Instant Benefits checker. It's this little widget you can put on your website or send to any prospective clients where someone can just put in their name, date of birth and insurance member ID, and we can immediately tell you within a few seconds what your benefits are. If you can get reimbursed, how much you can get reimbursed, etcetera. And that actually has helped therapists convert a lot more clients because if people are on the fence about paying, you know, say $200 a session for private pay therapy, if they realize they can get reimbursed, let's say even 70% of the cost of the session, then your your net cost for therapy is $60. It's basically it's just a little bit more than a typical copay. And that ends up helping therapists convert a lot more clients. And so that's sort of the first.

Heather: [00:11:33] Really it's it helps to make therapy more accessible for those who really need it. And that is the big thing is that often therapists will have like, well, they'll they'll put aside so many appointments for those who have lower income or whatever. And this this really is that solution that it's like we can provide therapy to anyone, no matter what their financial situation is. And that's what I love about it, is that we need to make, you know, therapy more accessible for for those who live in just different financial circumstances.

Christine: [00:12:16] Yeah. And to your point, I think a lot of people don't realize that they have what's called these out-of-network benefits. And so there could be people that, you know, I know that a lot of therapists have sliding scale. For example, I think that's what you were sort of alluding to, where they'll reserve a certain number of spots at a lower fee for people. But imagine if you can still charge, you know, closer to your full fee and they essentially only have to pay 60 or 50 or 60 or 80 or whatever it is that your sliding scale fee would have been otherwise. And so that kind of creates a win win situation where you're getting paid, you know, as much as you feel like is fair, and then they're basically saving as much as possible on therapy. And so it's this win win situation for both. And so that's why therapists and clients are both excited about it. But, you know, obviously once it's like I have these benefits, great. How do I actually use them? What do I do? That's really the second piece of our product. We wanted to create an end to end solution where it wasn't like, okay, great. And then you just like leave them hanging. Like good luck figuring out how to deal with your insurance. So we actually do take care of all of that as well, where a therapist just has to, you know, verify that Sessions has happened and then we will automatically submit the claim after every session and take care of it and follow up. If it gets denied for whatever reason, we will fight back against the insurance companies and make sure that the client gets reimbursed, the amount that they're entitled to so that they can continue seeking the mental health care that they need.

Heather: [00:13:43] Yeah, I love that so much. And one of the things that I think has been the hardest when starting Montoya is this idea of the super bill that not a lot of people are even understand that, that there is that option that I'm like, Oh, I can get a super bill and then submit it. And I know that even at that, sometimes that can be a struggle for practice owners to create the super bills and get them ready to then submit. And so that's kind of removing that that part of the.

Christine: [00:14:16] Yeah, you're exactly right. It's essentially replacing the super bill and more we help you understand that of network benefits and we sort of catch you every point because there are people who one don't even know that they have out of network benefits and don't even know that they can get reimbursed to. Maybe they know that they can get reimbursed, but they don't know how and they just don't understand the complexities of insurance. Three Maybe they understand all that and the therapist gives them a super bill, but then it gets rejected or they forget to submit it. And it's just this overhead that you have to remember to do within a certain period of time. Because if you submit it too late, insurance companies are not going to accept it. And so it's best to do it as soon as possible. But obviously there's already a lot on everyone's plate. You're going to therapy presumably to, you know, seek some help for mental health care. And on top of that, you have to like figure out insurance stuff. And the worst is when claims get denied. Like sometimes you submit it, you've like super bills can be a little manual sometimes. And so sometimes there's not exactly the right information that your particular insurance company wants. It gets rejected. And then now you have to involve as a client, you have to involve your therapist and be like, Hey, it got rejected. Like, why did it get rejected? And then the therapist is like, Well, I don't know, Like, I'm not an insurance expert. And then you're like spending hours, both of them trying to like, talk to the insurance company on the phone, trying to resubmit it. And so just having we just wanted to help people avoid the whole headache because if anyone's ever tried dealing with insurance, like, you know, you're being put on hold.

Heather: [00:15:43] We've all been on hold for hours with insurance companies. You're like, just schedule took out a whole half a day to fight with my insurance company on whatever or and like you said, then they're having to kind of go back and touch base with their therapist, which the therapist is like, Wait, I didn't want to deal with insurance companies. And now all of a sudden I'm having to deal with an insurance company. So having you guys, you know, take point on all of that is is amazing for clients and practice owners.

Christine: [00:16:11] Yeah. Yeah. It's I think people love it. It's it's an automated solution that we built out. It's super simple. It literally takes like three seconds to do. It's so little time. I think people are like, didn't like, why doesn't this, why hasn't this existed before? Like, how does this work? And a lot of it I won't get into the details, but a lot of it is just kind of the tech that we've built out behind the scenes of being able to figure out a way to communicate with insurance companies and send all the information in whatever format that they request.

Heather: [00:16:42] What are some of the results that your clients have experienced as a result of using Mintia?

Christine: [00:16:49] Yeah, that's a really good question. We've had I mean, we've helped clients get the end clients get thousands of dollars back on therapy per year. I think we help someone get over $10,000 back. They just want a lot of therapy sessions and we're able to get reimbursed a ton. And then on the therapist side, we have heard this help people, you know, fill up their practice more and just like take the burden off of them from having to explain to their clients. And it's great because now you get to be, I think, a lot of therapists. You want to help people. And I think a lot of therapists, they don't want to deal with insurance because of all the headache of that. But they also are like, well, I don't I want to make, you know, a living wage that makes sense for me financially. But also I don't want my rates to be too high and inaccessible to people. Like I don't want to only work with people who can afford to pay like 200 or 250 every single week, right? Like you want to work with all types of of people regardless of their financial situation. An and so I think this is this has been not only helpful from a, you know, a business building perspective but in feeling like you can be part of making mental health care more accessible by essentially helping using ming-tai to sort of bridge the gap a little bit between your full fee and the net cost that the patient or the client ends up needing to pay.

Heather: [00:18:10] Yeah. Yeah. Have you had any clients who have therapists? By by clients, I mean therapists who have asked like, well, how do I market this? How do I present this to? Because it's pretty clear, you know, a lot of therapists, when we create marketing, you know, we'll always talk about, okay, well, they're private paid practice. That's somewhere on the website, whether we have a whole page on the financial aspect of it. I've also seen a lot of where a lot of therapists who are private pay will go into the details of the benefits to both the therapist and the client as to being private pay. One of the benefits obviously being that they don't have to like itemize and like put like, you know, the right code in. It's just like, you know, here's therapy. Um, so anyways, so from a marketing standpoint, how do they talk to their clients about this?

Christine: [00:19:02] Yeah. So we have a few ways that we help with that. Obviously, we're here to support. We're not here to dictate how you market to your clients, but. One thing is that a lot of therapists do is because we have this essentially instant benefits checker they can put on their website, they usually put it and it's super easy if you use a website builder, if you have someone who helps you with your website, you just copy and paste something in and it takes like 30s to do. And we have this widget that you can put on your website in your rates or fees and insurance section of the website. A lot of therapists have something about their fees and they usually say, Here's my price, etcetera. And so right underneath that it's like, Hey, you might actually be able to, you know, use this calculator to check if you have these benefits and you might be able to actually get a reduced price on therapy or get reimbursed for my services. And so that is a big way to market themselves and distinguish themselves from other therapists who aren't offering that service for their clients. And I know that a lot of therapists also are adding into their paperwork or into their whether it's their email signature or in the initial consult call or whatever. When a client contacts them and when they ask them inevitably, like, what are your fees? Et cetera. They basically have a little blurb. We have a little blurb that you can copy and paste and say, Hey, this is my fee. But if you use this benefits checker and put in your information, you might be able to get reimbursed. And so those are kind of the different ways that therapists can market themselves.

Heather: [00:20:32] I like that. Yeah, because you have to be careful because you don't want them to all of a sudden be like, Oh, well, they they say they're private pay, but then they accept insurance and it's like, no, we don't accept insurance, but we have a way of facilitating a reimbursement for you. Exactly. So you have to, you know, make sure you position it in a clear way so that it makes sense that it's like, no, why we're still private pay. You may be able to receive reimbursements on that. So I like that you kind of offer that as is, Hey, this is how you can position it on your site or even in your email or talking with, you know, prospective clients.

Christine: [00:21:08] Yeah, We even have in addition to that, if you don't have a website or in addition to your website, we also give you a personalized link with your own with your own benefits checker that you can put on any of your marketing profile. So, for example, I know a lot of people are on psychology today. There's like a section that's like, What insurance do you accept? And instead of being like, nothing, you can put like, Hey, I don't accept insurance, but basically here, use this benefits checker and see if you might have these benefits. And I'll I'll help you basically make sure that you get the reimbursement that you deserve.

Heather: [00:21:40] Yeah, I love that. Okay. So what are some things that they can do to learn more about Mintia and and this product and this or this service? Um, how can they get started if they're curious and learning more?

Christine: [00:21:58] Well, you can go to our website. It's pretty simple. Menti.com It's m e n t a y a.com to learn more. And then if you sign up, we have a special we have a special offer for all the podcast listeners and anyone who hears about this through you. And it's if you sign up, you can just use the promo code TMS for therapy marketing solutions. So you put in TMS and you'll get a free 30 days of our benefits checker that you can just try out for free and be able to just try it out. Risk free. It's 30 days. You can cancel any time. And we just wanted to give an opportunity for people to just try it out and see for themselves.

Heather: [00:22:44] Yeah, yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for providing that because so often you see where you're like, Well, that looks cool, but I don't really understand exactly how it works. And this is an opportunity for them to really play around with it and see how easy and simple it is and then to actually maybe use it with a client or two and get an idea of how easy it is and decide if it's a good fit for their practice.

Christine: [00:23:11] Exactly. We just want people to be able to we normally don't do free trials, but for for listeners of this podcast, we are happy to give a free trial just so for 30 days. That's enough time. You can run your own insurance information through, you can ask your friends, you can run a few clients and go through and just see what it's like and see if it ends up being super useful for your practice.

Heather: [00:23:30] Yeah. So one last question that I have for you. What insurance companies do you typically work with just so that they, they know, you know, like, um, if they have clients that typically have X insurance or whatever, that that will help them to decide if it's a good fit for them.

Christine: [00:23:50] Yeah. We work with all the major insurance companies and more so just to name a few. We work with Aetna, you know, different Blue Cross Blue Shield. I'm in California. We work with like Anthem Blue Cross and California Blue Shield. But across the nation we are nationwide. We work with United Healthcare, Cigna and a bunch of other, you know, insurance. Companies that I'm not going to list right now because there's such a long list, but all the major ones. And if you don't if for whatever reason, there's an insurance company that you don't see on the list, we have basically this form you can fill out and we'll manually check your insurance benefits and get back to you within a business day and tell people their benefits. And also in terms of submitting claims, if it's not on the list, we are happy to add it in. And we generally have a pretty quick turnaround around adding insurance companies in the list.

Heather: [00:24:40] Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Christine. It has been a pleasure talking with you today. And like I said, when Maria, who works with Christine, contacted me about this, I was like, oh my gosh, where is this been like, this is such a great idea. And I just love how you took from your own experience and your own passion and helping, you know, people have access to mental health care and said, you know, in my business as I work in the tech industry, how can I help more people have access to health care and how can I help mental health professionals be, you know, be able to provide more access? So I love that you took from your experience and built something that can help everyone to find help and to also run their businesses more efficiently.

Christine: [00:25:34] Yeah, that's that's our goal.

Heather: [00:25:37] Yes. So thank you so much. You guys tune in next week for another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. Happy marketing, y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Heather: [00:02:01] If something happens to that platform, if by chance you, you know, for some reason you lose your reputation on there or whatever, whatever it is, those email, those people who are following you are not your followers. You can't take them wherever. You can't have them, you know, like go along with your business, but your email list will always be yours. Um, so no one can take your email list away. You have it when you want. It's a great tool for nurturing relationships because really, that's what it's about, right? Um, you know, I always say that your call to action button on your website is about getting people to take that action, but your lead generator is about nurturing relationships. And so that's really the goal in lead generation, is to further nurture the relationship, to build trust and authority and to make them feel comfortable with you. Especially with allied health professionals, it is very important that people feel comfortable when they feel comfortable in your business and in particular in you. They're going to want to work with you. So, um. To break it down as far as what is lead generation, it's very simple. Lead generation is some kind of valuable content, so you create something valuable to your ideal clients in exchange for their email. In the most simplest terms, that's what it is. I like what Neil Patel says. He is kind of a a big name in the marketing world and he says lead generation is the process of attracting and converting qualified leads into customers by creating and sharing valuable content that addresses their needs and pain points.

Heather: [00:04:07] I really like that he mentions that you're addressing their needs and pain points because when we talk about creating something of value, that's that's what's valuable to them. Um, a lead generator has no monetary value in the sense that it doesn't bring them, you know, greater money or whatever. I mean, I guess some lead generators and other industries could. But the real, the real goal of it is to, is to address their, their needs and their pain points. And I don't know if you've listened to any of my other podcasts, you will know there is a common theme when whenever we are writing or creating content or any of your marketing, it is about addressing your ideal clients pain point, their needs and first off, you know, identifying what their pain point or needs are, but then addressing them. That's what your business is about. It is about how you help them. So what are the different types of lead generators? Well, we could go on forever on the different types of lead generators. There are so many types of lead generators. There's, um. I mean, you could just continue. Yeah. Anything could be a lead generator. Really, If you really think about it. Anything for. Retail businesses. Lead generators are often 10% off your first purchase.

Heather: [00:05:48] You know, how many times have you guys filled out on a website? Take 10% off your first purchase and all you have to do is provide your email. Well, guess what? That opens up the door for them to continue to tell you about their the sales and the deals that they have. Same idea. We're obviously not giving 10% off your first purchase or um, or something like that. But for someone who's buying something in the in retail, 10% off is a value and that's why that works. Um, so we need to make sure that it is valuable. So my favorite types of lead generators and this is based on what is popular at in, you know what is popular, what what is, what is attractive to people right now. So quizzes are the big one. Um, people love quizzes if you can do like. You know, a ten question quiz that will help them to identify their personality. I mean, how many times have we done that? How many times have you guys done a personality quiz or you've done a like, I think we all know what house we come from, right? The Hogwarts House and Gryffindor here. Thank you. So I think every single one of us has done at least one Harry Potter quiz. Um, you know, you've done it, but so it I'm proving the point that quizzes. We love them. We love answering questions. So what can be valuable to your ideal client in the sense of what kind of quiz? Um, this what I suggest in figuring this out is literally taking 15 minutes and just doing a brain dump, just getting a piece of paper and just start writing and get creative, get crazy, get.

Heather: [00:07:50] Because sometimes the crazy ideas are the really good ones. Um, because they're out of the box and no one else has thought about them. So you know, seven steps to to identify. Um, your parenting style. That could be something cool. Or seven questions to identify your parenting style. Uh. You know, for something like SLPs Does my child need speech? Could be a question and you could, you know, do things like, well, how many words does your child know by the age of, you know, whatever benchmark one, three, five. Am I an introvert or an extrovert or obviously there's varying degrees of all that, something like that. So I'm just throwing out ideas in different industries. Uh. Yeah. I mean, you could just go on forever and just think about your industry. Think about what's of interest to people. Think about the questions that people ask you. Common questions and make a quiz of it. Same thing goes for. For the next one. Checklist. People like checklist. Going back to that example, does my child need speech therapy? That could literally be like, was your child? Did your was your child able to use 15 words? Please don't like I'm not using exact numbers, but like don't want to get any emails like, oh they should be able to say 20 words at one, whatever.

Heather: [00:09:35] You know, I'm just throwing a number out, you know, create a checklist for them. And so they can be like, Yes, they did 15 words at one. They did this many words at two or sentences. They did this, They did that. So checklist, it's like a grocery list mean or a to do list. I love checklists because I like crossing things off my checklist or saying yes or no. And it's a way to for them to kind of self-identify if they are you know, if they fall under that category. And the last one is videos. We love videos. How often do we find ourselves watching videos on Instagram reels or YouTube or, you know, Facebook or whatever the social media platform is? You can totally get caught up in videos, right? All of a sudden 30 minutes have passed and you're like, Well, shoot, that was fun. But, um, so videos, obviously people enjoy videos and that's the, you know, the idea that if we just spent 30 minutes watching mindless videos, how much more interesting would it be to watch some videos on something that is of value to us? So those are the top three. I actually have a blog article that I will add the link to that has many other ideas for lead generators. But really the big idea is that anything can be.

Heather: [00:11:12] Use as a lead generator. So get creative and have fun with it. So how do you decide which is best for your clinic? That's the that's the question, right? Because you're like, well, I like quizzes, I like videos, I like checklists. So which one is best for my audience? Which one is best for my ideal client? So I think the big thing is the more you understand and know your ideal client, the easier it will be to pinpoint which one is going to work best for them. Um, so what is the the age range? This really goes into creating like a client persona, a customer persona. So what's the average age of your, of your clientele? And if you see children, then you need to recognize that you're not marketing to the children. Obviously you're marketing to their parents, right? Or their caregivers. So, so when you create that that customer persona, you need to create it for the parent or the caregiver in mind. So what is their average age? If you know, if again, if you see children and you're marketing for the parents, you would say, okay, average age of my. Of the parents that come in would be in the the mid 30s range. What is their profession, what's their activity level And what I mean by activity level is. Um, you know, like, what is their, their guess, what is their interest level? Um, so for a parent, a parent can be highly motivated to you can actually for a lot of lead generators, you could probably give them more because they are going to want to read everything they can get their hands on to help them figure out how to help their children.

Heather: [00:13:15] Um, we have a very vested interest in in helping our children live their best lives. And so. You know, we'll spend hours reading and trying to find the right. The right information for us to to be to really help our kids succeed and thrive. Right. Um, so, so really their interest level in in that as well as the, the therapy that they're doing. Um, and then the other idea is really to try a few out. Don't decide this is it and this is what I'm going to do and I'm not going to change no matter what. Don't get stuck on any one thing. Try it out for 4 to 6 months and obviously measure results if you're not seeing the results that you feel like or you're not seeing any results, then it might be time to review it, revise it, or completely throw it out. Right. Um, and start from scratch. So be be open to trying new and different things. Marketing is not a one time fix. It's a the more you do it, the better you will get at it and the more you will be able to discover what what works for your ideal clients and what does not.

Heather: [00:14:44] Um, and one last thing is, if you have anything on social media that has worked well, like let's say that you created a post and you just got a lot of comments on it and feedback on it, turn that into a lead generator. If there's something that is doing really well on social media, you have a pretty. Good idea that that's going to work for a lead generator. So take that idea that you used in on the social media post and then convert it into some type of lead generator, expand on it and convert it. Okay, guys, so your homework for this week is to guess what, create a lead generator. That might not be surprising to you. So this is your challenge. I want you to create some type of lead generator. Obviously, in creating a lead generator, you need to not just like I'm just going to write create a quiz and that's it. You've got to make sure that you set it up with the, you know, tools that will collect their emails. And and as far as like what information you want to collect, typically you can get away with just an email or their first name and an email is usually fine. So if you ask for. For much more than that, you run the risk of of a higher bounce rate. People saying, no, I'm not giving them this information. So only ask as much information as that you actually really, truly need.

Heather: [00:16:24] That's the idea behind it. Okay, guys. So I hope that you are excited to start creating your lead generator. Lead generation is a very powerful tool because it helps you build an email list. Which literally lead generation and email list. Those are the marketing tools that run while you sleep. They are marketing your business while you sleep. And once you get one set up, that's working well for you. The good news is, is that you can kind of just let it go and leave it, you know, to its own devices for a while and then review it every six months. So it's it can be once you figure out what's working, it can be just left alone to do its own thing. And you check in to see how it's working periodically. So it it definitely is one of the most powerful tools in creating marketing. So, um, I am excited. Let me know what kind of lead generators you have seen have worked for you that you've seen success in. I'd love to hear. Please share. You can find me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook. So come and you know, let me know. I'd love to hear. So anyways, happy marketing, you guys, and best of luck. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Erin: [00:00:43] Feel more comfortable. I feel like you did that on purpose.

Heather: [00:00:46] Yes. It was intentional. Yeah. Welcome. Welcome, everyone. This is episode 14 of Therapy Marketing Solutions Setting up Client Expectations in Therapy. And today I am so excited about this, this conversation we're going to be having today. So I have Dr. Erin Behrens, who is a licensed clinical psychologist in Chicago with me. Welcome, Erin. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. I am excited to have you here. So I have to give a little bit of background information and how I met Erin. So I actually met found Erin on LinkedIn. I just saw her post and it resonated with me so much that I reached out and I was like, We need to have a conversation. I love what you put on there. So I want to tell you guys a little bit about because her post, like I said, it just really resonated with me. She said, I'm not a forever therapist. And right there I was like, What? Like it caught my attention and it said, Many clinicians start a therapy relationship with a new client with zero conversation about how they'll know the therapy is done. Maybe they assume that all their clients want to be in weekly therapy for years.

Heather: [00:02:12] But guess what? Therapy is expensive. Time is precious. Our clients don't want to disappoint us by breaking up with us. So they may continue in therapy longer than than needed. Out of obligation and another considerations. There are not enough therapists to meet client demand. So her solution was goal focused. Time limited therapy has many benefits and is preferable to many clients. Um, so I loved this post. Like I said, Erin, it just really resonated with me. It caught me my attention immediately when she said, I'm not a forever therapist. I was like, What? Like, wait a minute. Stop. Stop scrolling through my feed. Um, and I loved what you said because you hit on so many fantastic points about therapy and about not only client expectations and things like that, but also like from a standpoint of need that there is a shortage of therapists out there. So if we can, you know, help clients and then move forward, then you're able to help additional clients. So wow, wow, wow, wow. Thank you so much for posting that. I appreciate it. So before we really get into this topic, Erin, I would love for you to tell us a little bit about what you do.

Erin: [00:03:35] Yes, would be happy to. I am a you know, like you said, a licensed clinical psychologist. And I've actually been directing a clinical program of research in academia on how to treat PTSD and addiction for over a decade now. And now I'm really focusing more on helping community behavioral health organizations and mental health startups to design, implement and evaluate these time limited, evidence based behavioral interventions in their settings. So I got to the point in my career where I said, Look, we know a lot about what works for a lot of the clinical problems that I am interested in and have expertise in. And these interventions are just not reaching enough people. So that's really become my mission.

Heather: [00:04:23] I love that. And some of that came from past experience, correct? When you were working in in a setting in the past, right?

Erin: [00:04:34] Yes. So I one of my past positions was in a school of medicine and a Department of Pediatrics. And, you know, the way that psychologists often function in those settings is that we have a couple of different duties. So I was doing my program of research, and then I was also seeing patients through a teen and young adult primary health clinic. So I was their first psychologist they had ever had in their clinic. And so I really had this opportunity to work with them to figure out how do they bring psychology into their clinic. And what I realized right off the bat was that they had so many patients who needed behavioral health interventions. There was a lot of anxiety, depression, trauma, some substance use. And, you know, sometimes some other, you know, more unique presentations to they had a lot of need, as clinics still do today, probably even more so. So I just realized really quickly, this is not a place where I'm going to really be hanging on to patients for a long time. I need to figure out how to help as many patients, you know, reach clear goals as quickly as possible in some way.

Heather: [00:05:49] Yeah, I love that. So what does time limited behavioral health interventions and treatment look like?

Erin: [00:05:57] Yeah, it's a great question. So I do want to preface this by saying to, you know, I know there are a lot of different orientations to how clinicians approach therapy. They're all valid. We need diversity in what's being offered. So this is certainly not to disparage therapists who who treat clients for years and years. We need people like that who clients can go back and rely on, but we also need providers who can do this time limited behavioral intervention work. So the context for this work is often, you know, when you're in a setting where maybe you have limited opportunity to connect with a client or a patient, sometimes that can even be just like one interaction or it can be, you know, the kind of setting like I described, where you have maybe a short time to effect change. And so what this looks like is just really having a clear assessment process where you have an opportunity to understand as quickly as possible what the main challenges are that a patient or a client is facing and work with them to develop really clear, measurable goals and then implementing a strategy that's been proven to work for reaching those goals and measuring progress towards those goals. So, for example, when I was working in the primary care clinic, I would have a standard assessment battery to get at some of the main anxiety and depression kinds of symptoms that patients would report.

Erin: [00:07:27] Give them feedback on what I learned, you know, get their input on how did that resonate with them, and then work with them around developing a plan. So part of that work was always upfront letting patients and when appropriate, their parents know, this is how I operate. You know, I'm at time, you know, this is time limited therapy. I can work with you for a few months on a weekly basis to reach these goals. And if you would still like to have some supportive counseling or other long term therapy afterwards, I'm happy to help refer you out to a provider that has that orientation. And so it was really uncommon that a patient would not like that approach and would say more often than not, with that teen population, they're really excited with the idea of not being in therapy forever. So it was typically the parents who wanted their kids connected a little longer. The teens themselves were like, Great, let's take care of this so I can get back to to school, to my friends, to my activities. Um, but that's just sort of one example. I think there are a number of settings where this kind of work can happen.

Heather: [00:08:34] Yeah. One of the things that I really love that you said, and even just in our past conversations, is that you talked about this like creating expectations with the client. And so you guys are working as a team. There's kind of this collaboration like, how can we work together? How can I assist you in your journey, which I think is empowering?

Erin: [00:08:58] Absolutely. And I think, you know, we really have an obligation to be really clear with our clients on what work we're doing with them and why. You know, I can't tell you how many times I've met with a client or a patient who has had prior therapy experiences and would tell me they had no idea what their therapist had been doing with them, or they would say, Oh, I don't know. I would just go in and talk about whatever was going on that week. And so that leaves the patient with this sense, too, of I don't know if what I'm doing is helping me. I don't see any change. So, you know, it really gives a chance to, like you said, empower the client to be an active participant in their care and then we can look together as a team. Are we are we reaching your goals? However, we've defined those. And if we're not, that might mean we need to do something differently. So I see it as constantly a work in progress and it holds me accountable too. Yeah.

Heather: [00:09:56] I actually just met with a client yesterday. One of my clients, and who's a therapist, and she said, You know, typically we do 20 sessions and obviously the number can change based on your practice and things like that. And she's like, But I also tell them if they don't feel like they're seeing something within 3 to 7 sessions, maybe we're not a good fit with one another. Maybe we need to review this Like, and I loved that she had this kind of these benchmarks where she was like, let's assess. Let's make sure that we're on the right path before we get, you know, six months, a year, whatever in. And we're like, what are we doing here?

Erin: [00:10:34] Yes. Yes. It sounds like that client would get along great.

Heather: [00:10:39] Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a I loved that she and she puts it out there for people like, you know, right away immediately. So I think communicating that to potential clients is important as well beforehand because one of the things you said is, you know, often clients don't want to be in therapy forever. There's also the benefit that you're able to help more people. So there's so many benefits to having time limited goal oriented therapy.

Erin: [00:11:12] Yes, I agree completely. And it really, you know, I think it requires us as a therapist or the provider to sort of check our ego. We have to be willing to look at those outcomes data with our clients and to be able to feel comfortable to acknowledge if what we're doing isn't helping them as much as it could. So, you know, it's not always easy to get in the practice of doing it for that reason alone.

Heather: [00:11:39] Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things I want to ask about is how do you know that treatment has been successful? Like what are some things process wise or measurement tools? And we don't have to get into specific measurement tools, but just things that you use to assess success.

Erin: [00:12:00] Yes, that's a great question. So I think, you know, it really you know, like you said, it depends on sort of what the client's goals are. And so the more that you practice doing this measurement, you kind of build up sort of a library of brief measures that you can apply to different problems. You know, as a PhD psychologist, I am really symptom focused compared to some other types of providers. So that's kind of where I am. I feel most comfortable providing value to clients. So I use a lot of brief symptom checklists as a way to see if the client is improving. So I'll give you one example from some of my work that I've done is sort of designing a brief PTSD or post traumatic stress disorder intervention to fit within a residential addiction treatment program in the community. So we ultimately ended up knowing that we would have only three weeks to interface with the clients in this residential program. The first week, they were often getting through withdrawal symptoms. They were going through the onboarding and intake process just to get acclimated to the program. So we functionally had about three weeks to intervene with them. And so I ended up sort of modifying a gold standard PTSD intervention to really kind of cut down to some of the core ingredients.

Erin: [00:13:29] Based on my read of the literature and my experience with the intervention. And so we implemented this a couple times a week with these patients. And so in order to see if it was working, what we did was we gave a PTSD symptom checklist at the beginning of treatment and then at the end of the three week period just to see what was happening with their symptoms. And so the clients were telling us that they felt like they were getting better, but then we were able to also see how much better were they getting on that checklist. And we ended up seeing about a 65% reduction in their symptoms over that three week period. And so without having that measurement, I wouldn't really feel comfortable or confident recommending that modified approach to another provider to use. So I think that kind of gets at my point of like working with the time that you have. If you've only got three weeks, get the biggest bang for your buck in that three weeks and then make sure that you're measuring change so that you can tweak your approach if you need to.

Heather: [00:14:31] Yeah. And I know that a lot of what you you do is very evidence based. And then like, you know, like you said, measurement based where you're, you're finding ways to, to measure therapy, to measure progress, to measure even just, you know, overall, I guess, compatibility between clients and you.

Erin: [00:14:53] Yeah. And I think there are other you know, I, you know, again, I'm like really biased towards the symptom inventories just because of my sort of orientation. But you know I think as long as you're able to get an objective definition of what it is you're trying to change, it doesn't have to be only the symptom inventory. So, for example, you might be working with a patient and their goal is to, you know, be more social or develop stronger relationships. And so you can really work with the client to say, well, what what would that look like for you? How would you quantify, you know, sort of the the quality and quantity of relationships that you're trying to build? So you can you know, you can work with your patients in those instances to to come up with with your own metrics, but just to be able to be working towards something specific I think is really important. If you're trying to do this time. Limited intervention approach.

Heather: [00:15:45] Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Where they're, you know, helping to create the metrics that that they, you know, kind of look at success for. So even if it's like, well, what does being more social look like? Does that mean that you text five people this week or go out to dinner with someone or whatever that is their success? Looks like there's some way to measure it. And so instead, like when they come back the next week and and you might say, well, how did it go? You know, they'd be like, Good. Well, now all of a sudden you have something to be like, you know, almost like homework or something. Yeah, Yeah. Like, well, give me more, Tell me more. And so you're able to break that down and then work towards it. As I was doing a little bit of research for this topic, one of the things that, you know, that I read that really stood out to me was this idea of of when not only when you set goals as a clinician, but then when the client is able to be a part of those goals that they feel more successful in therapy as well. Yeah, it's clear, definable, you know, in goal as to what therapy is going to look like, what we're working towards and when therapy's over or you know, when there's an exit to therapy.

Erin: [00:17:04] Yes, absolutely. They definitely should be an active participant in setting those goals. But then also, like we shouldn't be hoarding information on their progress, you know, So I, I, you know, really value taking the opportunity every couple of weeks even to share progress with with clients. And I'm super nerdy and data driven and so I have to turn this into like little graphs, like I'll print a graph of clients progress. Here's where we started, here's where we are now. Look at how far you've come. Look at how much work you've put in. How are you feeling about where you are now? You don't want to forget that qualitative piece too. But what I've also noticed is, you know, people who have been struggling with their emotional health for a long time, they're a little hesitant sometimes to give themselves like props for what they've done and what they've accomplished. So it really can help establish trust with your client, too. It's not I'm not just telling you what you want to hear. I'm not just another person saying, Oh, you're doing great, you're going to be fine. I'm showing you this is what you told me about how you're feeling and how you're doing. I'm just reporting that back to you. So I think it can really help to build some self-efficacy for the clients, really build trust in the process and the relationship and just, you know, again, just be like an objective little metric on on how they're doing.

Heather: [00:18:25] Yeah, I love that. And again, it's that empowerment and that ability for them. Like you said, they don't often want to give themselves the pat on the back or whatever. Um, so they have. I don't it just it builds confidence. I would assume that that looking at that those little those reports and kind of seeing the metrics and be like, wow, okay, I started here and now I'm there, you know, there's going to be this confidence in themselves that that they're going to start to feel. Yeah. Through therapy.

Erin: [00:18:56] Yeah. And they may decide, you know, we've reached this point now I have some additional goals I want to work towards. Like now I see what's happened here. I want to do a little bit more. That's okay. That's great. Um, but yeah, you just need, need some tool to to give that feedback.

Heather: [00:19:10] Yeah. Okay. So I always like to leave a takeaway or a challenge to anyone who is listening to this. So what, what could be their takeaway or their challenge? What could be, you know, something that they could do to that they can bring into therapy?

Erin: [00:19:29] Yeah, I would say just to, you know, again, like I'd like to be really open to the idea that we as therapists approach our work differently. Not everyone's doing short term therapy. Not everyone is using the kinds of interventions I am. And that's okay. That's great. I would just ask people to consider how they, as a provider conceptualize meaningful change and how they engage their clients in that process. So just being really mindful to think about do I have measures in place to demonstrate progress with my clients? However, we are conceptualizing that together. And I would be really thrilled if people, you know, reached out and shared with me how they're doing this. I always love to hear from people, um, sort of on how they, they approach these different challenges. So.

Heather: [00:20:21] Yeah. I think one of the other things that we discussed, too, is that if they if they're if it makes sense for them to look for some kind of assessment tools that they can use to incorporate within therapy. Obviously, that's if it makes sense in their their business model and their practice and the kind of therapy that they are offering. But, you know, don't feel like you have to reinvent the wheel to like you don't have to create your own metrics. If something's already out there that fits or just needs to be adjusted to what you're already doing, then definitely, you know, Google the tools that you're looking for or start doing some research or ask other therapists to find what assessment tools they're using that have worked well with their clients.

Erin: [00:21:07] Absolutely. I think that's a great point, is not only is it a lot of work to reinvent the wheel, but we're not going to reinvent it as well as the person who's dedicated their life to creating symptom checklists. It's a very special area of expertise. And so I like to leave that to the measurement experts and then sort of use their tools that they've developed and tested and validated. So yeah, that's a great point is asking around. You know, there are a lot of resources online. The NIH has inventories and checklists that people can look at. You know, I think there are a lot of places to find these tools. And then once you've got them, you've got them. So, yeah, thinking about, you know, what kind of change are you pursuing with your clients and your practice and what are the existing measures out there to capture it?

Heather: [00:21:59] Yes. So, um, tell me a little bit more about what you're doing in your business. I'd love to hear about what? What's next for you?

Erin: [00:22:11] Yes, I'm really focusing on applying what I've learned in sort of my researcher life. Feel like I'm giving a bad answer. I'm going to give a pause now and have to cough.

Heather: [00:22:33] I'm going to ask that question again.

Erin: [00:22:35] Okay. Thank you.

Heather: [00:22:40] Okay, so what tell me about what's next for you. What are you working on right now in your in your business?

Erin: [00:22:49] Yeah. So what I'm doing now is really using the experience I've developed over the last dozen years or so to work with community behavioral health organizations and digital startups to help them design, implement and test evidence based behavioral health interventions. So I really am aiming to invest my skills where I can have the most impact, which I think is really helping providers and organizations that are on the front lines doing this tough work.

Heather: [00:23:23] I love that.

[00:23:25] So if you're interested in reaching out to Erin, I know she'd love to hear about what you're doing in your practice. And if you have any kind of, you know, quantitative tools that you're using or what assessment tools you're using in your practice, you can definitely reach out to her on LinkedIn and we'll actually have that link for your LinkedIn in the podcast. So notes. So check it out. Thank you so very much. I have enjoyed this. I love learning about what other people are doing in their businesses, how they are finding success and then, you know, just how they're helping their clients to feel successful. So again, thank you very much for being on this episode. Erin Thank you. It's been my pleasure. Um, and this is another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. Happy marketing, y'all.

Heather: [00:24:24] We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Heather: [00:01:42] So when you're creating content for your About Us page, you want to ensure that everything ties back to how you solve their problem. Everything, whether it be your bio, whether it be an introduction, like a couple paragraphs about your business. How is it solving their problem? And want to dig into this a little bit more. Let's unpack this. So what does that mean? So if we're creating the About Us page and we are working what I typically tell clients to do and when I write content for them is that top portion of the About Us page. So you've got your header on the top and then that next section we typically will talk about their problem. We we highlight the problem that they are facing because the truth of the matter is that no matter what anyone buys, no matter what service they start using, they do it for one purpose only, and that is to solve their problem. So you need to be solving their problem in everything that you do say and highlight. You know, like every part of your business, every part of your marketing needs to be talking about the problem that you solve. And you could say like right now, but I saw lots of problems. And that's true. Um, you know, I run a marketing business. I solve lots of problems. We do lead generators, we do websites, we do, um, you know, email campaigns, so on and so forth.

Heather: [00:03:23] But the overall problem that I solve is that it's not even just that I help people with their marketing. It's really that I help businesses grow. And I do that by helping them fill their schedules, by helping to drive more traffic to their websites so that they can then have more leads. So that's the real problem that I solve. It's not helping marketing. It's let me help you bring more people into your website. Onto, you know, filling out your contact form into calling you into scheduling an appointment with you so that you know, and it's the same for your business. So you have to think about it in that sense. You may offer a variety of services, but what is the problem that you solve? What is that overarching problem that you solve and that's what you want to be talking about on your about page. So like I said, that first paragraph, first like section, not just paragraph. You want to talk about your client's problem and then you want to talk about how your practice uniquely solves it. So this is your opportunity to differentiate from your competitors, whether that be that you in the customer service that you provide or in the systems that you use in in whatever it is. Just as a quick example, my kid's orthodontist, he uses a particular.

Heather: [00:05:01] My method of working with children and braces. So. For him. This is his opportunity to say, Hey, I use the blank system or the blank method to, you know, help them. And we don't want to get too much into the weeds. We don't want to get too technical. So make sure you're not doing that. But, you know, discussing that you do something different or you have a different approach or, you know, is is an opportunity for you to differentiate yourself. But keep in mind, always keeping in mind that you are still talking about your client's problem. And everything that you write you need to say is this tying back to how I solve their problem? And then afterwards you really want to describe what life looks like afterwards. So you've highlighted their problem. You've talked about how your practice uniquely solves it, and then you paint a picture of what life looks like afterwards after working with you. Um, so we've got that section. The next section typically is a lot of businesses will, will, you know, put their bios on there. And it is important to have bios. I think it is because it gives them the opportunity to get to know you without actually having to interface with you. So they get a little sneak peek again, though, just saying, Hey, I went to school at this university and I got this degree and I, you know, specialize in ABC.

Heather: [00:06:50] That's cool.

Heather: [00:06:52] That's cool. But and it's important, you know, you I mean, heck, you went to school. That's, you know, and got a degree that's going to help them. So it is important, but it's not important to just list it off. It's not like a grocery list, like did this, did that. We want to make sure that it doesn't feel like a grocery list, that you're just listing off all of your qualifications. Instead, let's talk about why you went to school so you could say something like, um. Uh, I helped a client write a bio one time, and she was a speech language pathologist, and her interest in speech language pathology came about as a result of her own speech impediment with the speech struggles that she had. So that was really interesting because it was it was interesting for them. They could the clients could resonate with that. They're like, oh, my child has a speech problem. Oh, their speech therapist used to struggle with, you know, with saying certain sounds. Um, so it was, it was an interesting bio because we literally started with, you know, as a child I struggled with speech sounds and my interests, you know, the interest came, um, in, in speech as a result of attending speech myself. And so it also built this empathy level, this level of empathy where you're like. My therapist. You know, my speech language pathologist gets me. We want to be careful, though, to not, you know, obviously air out all of your your baggage or your luggage or whatever to like. Let's not. Like paint this this story, but we can do it in a way that we can carefully do it. So So we don't want to be like. I don't I'm trying not to be I'm trying to give an example that. But we definitely don't want to be like.

Heather: [00:08:59] Well, you.

Heather: [00:09:00] Know, like I guess the example is we don't want to be like a country song, okay? So we don't want to be like, my truck broke down, my wife left me and my dog died. Okay. So let's not give that. That's the only example, the best example that I can give. So let's avoid the country song bio and. But, you know, you have an opportunity to to talk about your why to do it in a way that highlights your education and but shows that you're passionate about what you do and passionate about helping them. So again, it's going to tie back into helping them that, you know, as a child you struggled with speech and. You know, it made you feel bad. You sometimes you struggled with confidence as a result. And so you really want to help children, which which gave you an interest, let's say that it allowed you to become interested or you became interested in helping others as a result. You see how like much this just so much more intriguing, it's they want to get to know you. They're like, Oh, I know a little bit about you. That also has something to do about us and how you solve their problem. So let's talk about like, what if you have nothing? Like what if there was nothing to do? Like, um, you didn't have a speech impediment or you didn't have speech struggles, articulation problems. And and so that's not why you became a speech pathologist. It could just be something like, I took a class, like I've had another client who really be became interested in audiology because of a project that they did and their, um.

Heather: [00:11:01] In their undergrad studies. And that led to just this deep passion for for hearing. So that could it could be as simple as that because, again, it is tying something tying part of your story with their story, but it's doing it in a way that says, I want to help you. I'm passionate about helping you. Um, and here's kind of my why behind it. Okay, so. Um. You know, I think that. I love what Donald Miller says, He says. Donald Miller from Storybrand says, When I make the about us about you, it makes you want to do business with me. I'm like, Oh, okay, you guys, that is amazing. So when you make your about us, about your clients, they want to do business with you because all of a sudden they realize you want to help them. You have their best interests at heart. You are passionate about them. It really removes the barrier of just talking about yourself and creating. I mean, why do we why do we have businesses, especially allied health professionals, you know, therapy businesses. You guys are passionate about helping other people. You really every. You know, in all of the services you offer, it's about improving someone's life, whether that be through hearing aids, you know, someone who struggles with hearing and providing them with hearing solutions, whether that be with counseling and helping them have some, you know, moments of self-discovery and enlightenment or teaching them, you know, giving them some coping techniques.

Heather: [00:13:09] You are helping them. So why wouldn't your About us page and even. Your website and your marketing and your business be about them, right? Um, anyway, so this is the big idea I want to leave you guys about your about page is not about your business. It's not about you. It is about your clients and how you help them. So the challenge for this week, what I want to leave you with is I want you to go and review your about page. And to revise it accordingly, Change it to to be about the problem that your client is facing and how you help them solve it. And then I want you to see what difference it makes, see if it's, you know, you can do that through obviously tracking like Google Analytics and stuff like that. See if they spend more time on your About Us page and see if it really makes a difference, see if someone says something about it. But I guarantee that if your About Us page is about your clients, they are going to be more excited to work with you. And that's all guys for this episode. I wish you the best of luck in writing and revising your About Us page. Happy marketing y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Lauren: [00:01:04] Hi. I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

Heather: [00:01:07] Yeah, I am excited to have you. So to tell all of you guys and to give you a little intro, Lauren has actually worked with my business. She has helped me with some of my onboarding and offboarding. And just like as we go through processes with clients. So I'm a big fan of Lauren's and and she's actually matched me with my VA, who I absolutely love. So so yeah, so I can't say enough good things about Lauren and that's why I wanted to have her on today. Because when you have a process, when you have a system in your clinic, um, things just flow easier. You're not having to like have all this head space for all the things that are missing. You're able to create more and you're able to, to better serve your clients. Um, so, Lauren, I want to start off really with jumping right in and telling me or telling us really a little bit about your business.

Lauren: [00:02:12] Yeah. Systems to scale. We actually officially launched with what we do kind of in the formality since the beginning of 2021. So it hasn't been really long, but it's really incredible how much we have grown in this last year, just seeing the missing piece kind of in the marketplace because we are twofold. We are I am a systems strategy coach and consultant that helps business owners really automate and be more productive and set up their systems and processes. But also we are a virtual assistant agency because really in order to scale the six and seven figures, you have to get your systems and processes in order and delegate and offload all of the operations side of your business so that you can serve clients, so that you can be the face to your brand, so that you can get out there and do the things that only you can do and allow somebody else who's skilled in those areas to really take over all of that. Plus, it helps us in our energy levels, you know, where we don't have to constantly be like dragging about all the things we don't necessarily want to do, and it's distracting us from the things we really need to be focused on and have the energy for.

Heather: [00:03:16] I love that you said that because with a lot of therapists, a lot of individuals who are in the therapy field, burnout is a major problem. Yeah, it is a huge problem. I mean, I could say probably it's a problem across, you know, all businesses in some way, shape or form. But burnout is a really big problem because they are handling so much, especially as business owners. Um, they are, you know, I mean, when you're a business owner, you have to wear a lot of hats and then at the same time they're seeing clients, typically a lot of them are still seeing clients, so they've got a full load. So I love that you say that, you know, by creating systems, by recruiting the help, you are able to have more, you know, energy and to have more capacity to to think outside the box and to think really about your your business, It actually creates an opportunity to have a vision. Could you guys imagine that having the time to like have a vision about where you want your business to go? That's that's amazing. So I really love that you, um, you say that. So what are some of the services you said that you offer VA and then really that you come in and look into all of their systems and do like a thorough analysis, correct?

Lauren: [00:04:39] Yeah. So we work mainly in the operations side of any person's business. Kind of like what you would have a CO come in and do. However, we we offer the strategy, the, the coaching, the consulting because a lot of times you'll get an admin who can work in your business, but they're not going to be systems minded. And so we can take what you've done all along and we can refine it and make it better and simplify it and make it easier for someone else to manage and oversee that side of your business. And so we do do that coaching and consulting. I also offer just strategy sessions. If somebody wants to walk through and say, Hey, I'm really struggling, like what are my next steps in in bringing a client in or starting a new project or onboarding a client and saying, Hey, it's time to go, But I still want them to think of me when they need my services again, those kind of things. I can just jump on a call and help offer a strategy for you as well. But we do have a team that's very skilled in all the different areas, like CRM workflows, project management boards, many of the digital tools that we use to create these processes and systems that will help do some implementation as well.

Lauren: [00:05:42] So we offer that. And then of course, I have one of my superpowers is my sixth sense to match people to that are really going to help partner with them in their business because it's not just about skills and tasks, but it really is about finding someone who can be a long term partner with your business. You don't want someone who's just there to put in the hours, but you want someone who is really going to care about your business. And work alongside it and help grow and develop it. When I brought in team members to help me in my business, I recognized my business became stronger not just because they were doing work, but because they had so much more to offer ideas and new things to do and a different set of eyes than my eyes alone. Alongside that. And so I really love to see people get partnered up and find a virtual assistant who could be a project manager, who could be a social media manager, who could do lots of different things remotely for you, but can really be a long term partner in your business.

Heather: [00:06:34] Yeah, Yeah. And I love that, you know, you do the consulting and things like that because the problem with a lot of businesses is that we don't know what we don't know. We don't know where the gaps are. We think we have a process. We think everything looks good. And unless you've been on that other side as the actual client, sometimes you don't see all of the gaps. And whereas you, you know, are working with multiple businesses and so you can kind of take your experience with working with all these different businesses and say, Hey, I noticed a gap here. Like, what can we do here? Let's create a system here. Let's do some, you know, standard operating procedures, SOPs, so that whoever is here is going to be able to have success. And I also love that. Um, so there's a quote that I it says it's by W Edwards Deming, who's a leading management thinker in the field of quality, and he says, put a good person in a bad system and the bad system wins no contest. And that was like all the, you know, the sirens and the bells and the whistles all went off for me. And it's like, it's true. If you don't have a good system in place, you could have a person who is so excited to work with you who wants to do, but they will fail because they don't know. They're not inside your brain.

Heather: [00:07:57] They don't know what you know, and you're trying to impart all of your knowledge out of your brain. Takes a lot. So, um. So matching people who can, you know, first create the system and then matching someone who can really come in and improve, you know, not only run the system, but then offer advice and thoughts. And that's one of the things that I really love about my VA is that, you know, she's great at being like, Hey, what would you think if we did that? And I'm like, Fantastic. Because I don't again, I don't know what I'm missing. I don't know where the gaps are all the time. Um, yeah, that's great. So it often feels like you're like a horse with blinders on where you're like, you know, you need someone to have that other like to be able to see the other perspectives. So, um, so for therapy businesses, what are some of the, the processes and systems that, that you feel like they should have in place? Um, I know we had, we kind of discussed this like, you know, possibly like some kind of intake process for when someone first, um, clicks the button on their website. So let's talk about that in a little bit more. Um, so. You know, once they click the button on their website, obviously that has to do something. It has to trigger some event, Right?

Lauren: [00:09:25] Right? Yep. And I think a lot of times that is one of the big missing pieces when it comes to processes is we see leads fall through. I know in a therapy business you don't want to necessarily say lead, but but a prospect that's going to come into your clinic and use your services, you really don't want them to fall through the cracks. You want them to feel like and especially in this kind of high touch industry where someone needs to feel valued and loved and listened to and all of those things, you want them to feel like, hey, they matter and they're important. And our human nature tells us if something happens, if we go and fill out a form and we don't ever hear back that we are not important, right? That we might as well not waste our time on that. And so making sure that whatever you have set up on your website, your forms are working correctly, is like a huge part of that process and that system and checking that regularly because we all know technology can fall through and we need to to be able to evaluate and inspect consistently whether that's once a month or quarterly. Having that as part of your process. But where does that go? What happens next? You send an automated email. That's typically what happens, right? Somebody fills out a form, there's an automated email that goes to their inbox that explains more about their services, maybe asks them to set up a call or to come in and schedule an appointment, maybe directs them to something that's going to explain more about their services.

Lauren: [00:10:44] But what if that person never responds? Right? Do we have a continuation of that follow up process? Because you know what? Sometimes email ends up in junk or spam or sometimes it gets missed and overloaded by a bunch of other things. Or again, sometimes technology just doesn't work. And so we need to make sure we have a consistent process of how many days are we waiting on this Before we follow up, are we only following up via email? Do we have a process in place to collect their phone numbers that we could call them and give them a call and direct them that way? Do we add them to our Lead Nurture series? If some point they decide that they're not ready to move forward at this point? Well, we still want to be top of mind, right? So there's all these little pieces that you could add into that, like onboarding process or that that lead prospect process of being able to bring them in because, you know, statistics tell us and I don't know, you might know more about the therapy business specifically, but online business in general is that sometimes it can take six plus months for someone to actually buy into your services and choose to move forward with that. And so they need to be reminded. We're all bombarded with so many different things, right? They need to be reminded of who you are and what you can offer to them before they decide to move forward in that way.

Heather: [00:11:56] Yeah, and I love that you said, you know, especially in the therapy business, I have all therapists, all those in allied health services, so allied health professionals, audiologists, whatever they they became or they entered that profession, I guess I should say, because they cared about people. They really care about people. And so having your system, your intake process in place allows you to continue to show that you are caring about people. It may be automated, but there are ways that we can do it to make sure that they are consistently feeling taken care of. And that is a huge way of taking care, of making people feel like they are valued, take care of them along the whole process. Um, so another area is really once they start working together with the client and in this area, you know, for me is what I tell a lot of my clients therapy clients is, you know, just make sure that you're touching, you're over overcommunicating with them, make sure that they know where they are in the process. If there is something like, for example, a speech language pathologist do reports for them every so often and say, here's where we are. These are the sounds that your child is working on. This is where we're going to be next. This is where, you know, like you can, um, support your child, stuff like that. Like people will eat it up and they will love that. So no matter what industry in within like therapy that you're in, find ways that you can overcommunicate to them. Yeah.

Lauren: [00:13:45] Think it's all about managing expectations, right? Is everybody's going to walk in with expectations, whether it's the accurate expectations or you're on the same page as somebody else. And if you can on the front end, tell people what to expect, then they can't be disappointed. They can't come back and say, well, this didn't meet my expectations and I was upset about this. And so really communicating to such a part, to such a distinction that it almost feels annoying that you've said it so much. Right. Because we all know we get emails, we don't read them. We listen to we have to hear it multiple times. I mean, think about your children. How many times do you have to tell them the same thing over and over again to get them to do it? And then sometimes I have to remind myself, well, I guess sometimes I have to be told the same thing over and over again to to remind myself to do it and managing those expectations and then also anticipating their questions. And a good exercise you can do in creating a great process for this is every time you're on a call with a client or you have a session with a client, literally just record the questions that they ask. If you get an email from a client record, the questions that they ask, and then you can look back and look through those and say, okay, well, what kind of questions are these? Are these ones that are managing their expectations or what's coming next? Or or what should I do when how can I communicate this in a way that they don't even have to ask the question? And we're really answering that for them in advance?

Heather: [00:15:08] Yes, I love that. I love that. So take notes Any time anyone has any question about your business, the process, you know, billing any of that, write them all down. And I actually have done a couple of times where I've done an exercise where I just start like writing anything anyone would want to know about my profession or how I can help them. For me, I've been creating like blog posts and things like that content so that they can find those answers. But I love that you can create processes out of those too, to say, okay, so a common question that I get is, you know, how often will I be billed? And so then you make sure that you have something for them, whether that be an email, a handout or just, you know, discussing it, hey, your bill comes a 15th of every month or whatever that is. So take those questions, create processes out of them. And then the last area where I feel like a lot of businesses really forget, I mean, even within my own business, I really wanted to create this amazing onboarding and I thought about it, but I because I was so busy with the other two areas, I didn't have the time for this. So after you start working with after you have worked with a client, what are some things that we can do as far as like onboarding them?

Lauren: [00:16:36] Yeah, well, think one again. It's managing those expectations, so it's delivering to them in a communicative way. Here's what we've done and here's what I recommend the next steps are for you. And if it's something you can offer, that's great, go ahead and upsell them. I know this is you know, we're talking about therapy, but but this is selling your services. So go ahead and upsell them on what the next step is so that you can help them the way that they need help. If not, finding having resources at your fingertips of where you could send them next along in that in that process. I think the other thing is, is a lot of times even in therapy clinics and in that type of industry and service, when you're serving a client, it might be for a season and then they come back later. Right? There's something else that that kind of disrupts them and they need another season to kind of go through that. And so again, you want to be constantly reaching out to them, reminding them of the things that you've worked through is a great way to do this is just, you know, having a timed reminder at a certain point, whether it's six weeks later saying, Hey, I just wanted to check in and see how you were doing and make sure that this is still going good.

Lauren: [00:17:43] Or how have you been doing in this particular area that we had worked through and were discussing and kind of managing that, but having that consistent process where you're checking in, not annoyingly, okay, you don't want to be sending an email every week for six months, but spacing out your timing in order to do that and then just delivering special things, right? Whether that's a handwritten note thanking them for using you or allowing you to be a part of their process, putting that in there and sending that out at the end. Or sometimes people have like offboarding gifts that they give their clients or they have, you know, they lead them to an email series that's perfectly timed, that walks along something that relates to them, those kind of things. And so thinking through what are what are all of the opportunities I have to continue to touch these clients to have high touch opportunities to communicate with them and allow them to be remain in my circle of, you know, just warm leads to just show up and be available when they need me again.

Heather: [00:18:42] Yes. Yeah, I love that. And I love the idea of giving little gifts and things like that. Um, I've worked with, you know, a speech language pathologist who who worked with kids who were thumb suckers. And so they gave them a little trophy when they were done. That's awesome. Their thumb. That's a great idea. Just kind of say, hey, let's let's have a moment. Let's congratulate you where you're at. And it's those like again, back to those touch points and that human interaction and you're making them feel valued. And not only that, but it does another thing. So not only like may they come back, but they're also going to be raving fans and they're going to tell everyone about you because they're going to be like, Hey, guess what? You know, so and so. She's the most amazing therapist and she's done these things for me or, you know, John, he was my physical therapist and really helped me after my my knee operation or just whatever it is. Um, so I know that actually bringing up physical therapists, my kids, a couple of my kids have done physical therapists and they get assured at the end they still wear them. They wear in to school like amazing advertising for that therapist. Um. So. But I know that it can feel like a lot of work. I know that it can feel a little bit frightening to change things. So Klaus Schwab, who is an engineer, an economist and a founder of the World Economic Forum, said change can be frightening and the temptation is often to resist it. But change almost always provides opportunities to learn new things, to rethink tired processes and to improve the way we work. And I think that's one of the thing is if you're going to create a system or a process, then you need to buy into it, right? You know, take a very good look at it, analyze it, and then buy into it and say, this is what we are going to do until we decide that we need to improve it. This is our system.

Speaker3: [00:20:50] Right?

Lauren: [00:20:51] Yeah. And I think a system is only as good as the people who are operating it. So we have to recognize that as we are and as businesses are constantly in a state of evolvement and change and development, so are our systems. And so recognizing that, hey, if we can get these things really clear and take away the complexity, take away the overwhelming nature, start to make it habitual, you know, I usually tell a business owner, you just start somewhere and you start somewhere small, and that could be as simple as taking 10 or 15 minutes at the beginning and the end of your day to just refine the way you're doing with things and looking into your system. Or, you know, one of the biggest things that that business owners struggle with and working with me is starting to use a project management tool if they haven't already. And it's that habit of getting things out of your head, off of scratch pieces of paper and making sure it's in that tool so that your whole team is communicated with. And so it's just taking little chunks and starting to do that on a small basis until it becomes habitual. But we all know as adults, right, building habits are hard, they're really hard, and sometimes we fail and we just have to keep picking ourselves up. And so if we are committed to doing something and making sure it works, it's just showing up and continuing to work in that and then allowing ourselves the grace to recognize, well, maybe there's a reason this isn't working and we need to evolve it and tweak it and refine it as our business grows and evolves in that way as well.

Heather: [00:22:16] Yeah, definitely. Now, I know one of the things we kind of discussed before we jumped on this podcast is a common misconception, and I want to I want to talk about that for just a half a second. You know, because creating a system or a process is, is a habit because, you know, sometimes people kind of push back on it and they feel like it. It's changed all of a sudden. They're not flexible anymore and their business and they're not offering a custom, you know, solution to their client. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that and talk about that a little bit more.

Lauren: [00:22:53] Yeah. As people focused entrepreneurs and business owners, we want to serve people right? And it's really hard for us sometimes to to meet people and hear about what they're doing and want to serve them with where we're passionate and to say, well, they don't really fit in. And so sometimes we feel like if we have this structure and these benchmarks in place and these processes and these systems, that it's going to keep us from the flexibility of being able to serve people and being able to change what we offer them or being able to change our prices or, you know, that's a big one, is well, sometimes I just want to not charge as much, even though I need to make this amount of money. Sometimes I just want to serve this one person. Well, that's okay. If you have the systems and processes in place that actually makes it easier to do that, it doesn't make it more difficult because think about your schedule in your day. If you have blocks where you're getting the important things done in your day and your week, then you have free time. That's flexible for you to say, Okay, well, for me, I work from home sometimes with my four kids and sometimes they're just having a hard day.

Lauren: [00:23:53] And I have to say, okay, it's time to close my computer and it's time to just give them some one on one attention while I have the freedom to do that. If I have the habits and the system in place to get the things done that need to be done and not end up like twiddling my thumbs and wasting my time. And that's the same thing with when we serve clients. If we have the benchmarks and the major tables that we need to serve them in these areas, it allows us the freedom and the opportunity then to come in and to serve them in additional ways or to add an extra deliverable or to to come in and do something above and beyond what we normally do, or to change our prices or to serve them for free. Right. All of those things in that flexibility and the customized approach we want to have for our clients can be offered. The more systems and processes we have in place allows for the more freedom of that.

Heather: [00:24:42] Yeah, Yeah. And one other thing is that customers and clients, clients love systems, they love processes because again, they're not falling through the cracks. They know that they're being taken care of every step of the way. They. Every step of the way has been anticipated, too. And so that's, you know, as another plug for processes and systems. I would just say just that you're actually serving your clients better because of it for sure. So. Well, I like to leave, you know, at the end of the podcast kind of a takeaway. So or maybe a challenge. So what would be your takeaway or challenge for, you know, clinics and practices?

Lauren: [00:25:26] Yeah. So if you're at a place in your business and you really don't have a plan of where you want to be in five years, that would be my major challenge is to discover what direction you want to head because there's lots of different places as you grow and develop. Some people just want to stay where they are and they're great and that's a great place to be. Well then you can develop your systems and processes based around that. But if you decide, Hey, I want a franchise and I want to have clinics in all different locations and I want to be able to empower different therapists to own different clinics and all of these things, then that's going to change the way that you approach your systems and processes, the way that you hire onto your team. And so I would challenge you to really take some time and dive deep, like in five years. What kind of work do you want to be doing? Where do you see your business growing and your clinic looking like and how can you start moving towards the right systems and processes in order to get there?

Heather: [00:26:18] Yeah, I love that. You know, Donald Miller talks about that often, looking at, you know, forecasting your life, creating that vision and then reverse engineering it. And that's really what you're doing is if you look at five years from now and you say, hey, this is where I want to be, maybe I want to have a couple locations open, maybe I just want to grow my one location from the 1 or 2 therapists to ten therapists, whatever that is. Well, now all of a sudden you have a plan and then you can ask yourself, How am I going to get there? What steps do I need to take to get there? How do I need to change my business? How do I need to grow my business in order to get to that place? So I think that's that's a really great challenge. So I would just suggest, you know, just even take like 15 minutes. It doesn't have to be a lot of time and just start writing, just start, you know, think about where your business can be in five years and just start writing. And I think it'll be exciting for you. And it might be eye opening, too, right? Right. So, well, thank you so much, Lauren, for being on this podcast. So, you know, I again think your work is amazing and I feel like it has helped me in my business grow so much and I'm able to take on more things and move my business forward where I felt like before I was a little bit, you know, just kind of floundering or plateauing. So what are some things that are going on in your business? Tell us a little bit about some services and things in your business.

Lauren: [00:27:54] Yeah, One of our main exciting offerings that we have going on right now is called 60 Day Systems to Scale. And what we do here is we take 60 days, we perform a business systems audit with a business owner, and we take those 60 days and we set up the five main business foundational systems in your business, and that's your email management, your file organization, your team communication, your project management and your workflows, which is a lot like we talked about those processes that you would take clients through and we get those super clean and organized. We add to them, we automate them, we create the SOPs, and then we help you outsource that. If that's the stage that you're in. If not, we help you take off that extra time that you've been doing those things in manually so that you can relax and not have to focus as much on the operations. And so I would love to offer that to any of the listeners here. I can have a special discount available to you if you reach out and let me know that you are interested in our 60 day systems to scale. And you heard me here on this blog, I will offer a discount for you there. And you can you can hear from me at hello at systems scale.org. Shoot me an email and tell me all about your business. I would love to hear more about it.

Heather: [00:29:04] Thank you so much again, guys, this is your call. This is your wake up call. Get your systems and processes in order. It's going to free up time. It's going to make you happier in your business as a business owner. And that's just kind of the parting words that I want to leave for you. And with that being said, happy marketing, y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Heather: [00:01:40] I can't tell you how many websites I have been on that lack a call to action. So we are going to break it down today. I'm going to give you some tips on how to use call to actions placement. You know, all the things about call to actions so that you understand and of course, you know, create some challenges for you and challenge you guys. So if, like I said, if there's nothing else you get out of this episode, have a call to action. You know, I can drop the mic and walk away at this point. Right. So let's dig into it. Right. So call to action. Call to action, you know, can be a variety of things. Um, really, what you're doing is you're calling someone to take a specific action to fill out an intake form or request more information, sign up for your newsletter or download something. Et cetera. Et cetera. Right. It's like I said, it is getting someone to take an action. Well, why is it important? Why is action important? Well, Pablo Picasso sums it up really well. He says action is the foundational key to success. So getting someone to take an action is the foundational key to your business's success. I'm not saying it's the only key, but it is a foundational key. It is at the foundation of your marketing.

Heather: [00:03:12] So if you do not ask someone to take a specific action, they sometimes won't. People like knowing what the next thing is. A call to action creates clarity in that. Um, so there's two different kinds of call to actions. And for today's episode, we're really going to focus on the call to action button. Uh, so there's two different kinds though, of call to actions. One is the direct call to action, and the other one is a transitional call to action. A direct call to action is. For all intents and purposes, the thing that you want someone to do when they are on your website. I I've done a lot of reviews, website reviews and things like that. And I tell people often like if you're called to action is not clear, is not consistent and is not noticeable, then people might miss it. They're not going to know how to get started with you. And that's ultimately the whole entire goal of your website, is to give them enough information that they want to start with you, that they want to take the next step in the relationship. That's all you're doing, the whole entire website. Get them to take the next step. So by using powerful call to actions, that's what we're doing. So Ray Edward Edwards, he is literally like the godfather of copywriting and sells.

Heather: [00:04:47] He, in his book How to Write Copy that sells. He says this is one of the areas where copy tends to often be the weakest, the response request. You should not be shy about making this request. You should tell the customer exactly what to do in order to get your program, your consulting, your book, etcetera. Completed done. You know, and in his code obviously he says program consulting book. But for you guys a lot of business owners it's in order to get them to schedule an appointment. So a direct call to action is the one thing you want them to do on your website to get them to take the next step in working with you. And now let's talk about transitional call to action. I just want to touch on this lightly. A transitional call to action is really what it sounds like, a transition. It is less commitment and it's a way to it's almost like a baby step, like direct call to action. Take the full step. A transitional call to action. What's that little baby step you want them to take? That might be subscribed to your lead generator. Sign up for our newsletter. Um. You know, download an episode or a video or whatever it is, it is typically in exchange for an email address. So all you're asking for is an email address.

Heather: [00:06:26] Um, I say all you're asking, but I know that's a big ask. Um, so that transitional call to action, you need to make sure that what you are exchanging and we're going to go more into lead generators in another episode but that you are asking for their email in exchange for some kind of valuable piece of content. Every business is different and it really depends on who your client is, your ideal client. So knowing who they are will help you to create a lead generator that. That they want, that they want that they're excited about. And so that's transitional call to action is is part of that lead generation tool. So back to direct call to actions, I just wanted to kind of touch on the transitional call to action, just to let you guys know that there are two different types. But I want to get back to the direct call to action. And we are going to get into some tips for today. Uh, so just a couple of things. Keep it consistent. So what does that mean? Keep it consistent? Well, your call to action should be the same on everything. I mean, occasionally, like I said, if there's a transitional call to action, it's going to be different. But if you're using a direct call to action, whether you are on social media, in an email, on your website, your Google ads, your SEO, if you add like a call to action to them, it needs to be the same.

Heather: [00:08:03] The reason behind that is when you are consistent. People understand what you want them to do. It always goes back to understanding make it simple and make it easy. Um, and that kind of the next tip goes along with that. Keep it clear. Cleverness is. The. The master of the king of confusion. So if you have to decide between clever or clear. Always pick clear. When it comes to call to action, there are ways to have a call to action. You know, be different, be unique with and still be clear. Um, in fact, I've got a freebie today that you can download and it has, you know, several different call to actions that aren't the same. So it's not just book an appointment or schedule an appointment or schedule a consultation. So, um. But but, you know, is is unique and can be unique to your brand. So hopefully, even if you don't use the ones that I have in the freebie, it'll get you thinking about a clear call to action that you can consistently use on your website. So the next thing that I see so many people miss out on is make it noticeable. Don't make it hard to find your call to action. Should be if you're looking at a you know on a desktop, desktop computer should be in the top right corner of your navigation.

Heather: [00:09:51] Um, that top portion where all your pages are listed, it should be a bright color, so it should stand out in your navigation. You know, you can have the other things like service about and then have your call to action where everyone can see it. The your prospects eyes should be drawn to it. Another really important place is where people miss out on is having a call to action in that top header portion where the images or the video or whatever put a button there too, and then I want you to put a button in at least every other section of that page. So if you've got on the top, if you've got this beautiful image and it says, um, physical therapy in Ohio and below that, um, I mean, obviously we could talk about, you know, better titles than just physical therapy in Ohio. Um, but below that, have your call to action button and then you have another section which might talk about some of the services and below that have a call to action in that next section. And then you have maybe some testimonials and then the next section, guess what? Call to action. So your call to action should be on your page.

Heather: [00:11:19] And it kind of depends on the length of the page, but it should be on the page at least 3 to 5 times on one page and do it for every page. Every page needs a call to action button. And the last tip really is, is to make sure that your direct call to action is actually direct. Don't make it passive. The language learn more is is very passive. It is ambiguous. What do you want me to learn more about? Um, it's kind of making the the prospect take that leap as to trying to read your mind. Well, I assume they want me to read more or learn more about their services or whatever. So. So just make sure that it is. It's very direct as to that next step. Start now. Get started. Um, you know, schedule an appointment. Call us. Schedule a consultation. Book a consultation. All of those are direct in what they want your prospect to do next. So keep it consistent, keep it clear, make make it noticeable and make it direct. Those are the four things that need to happen with your call to action, you know, and then of course, be strategic in, in what you're called to action is and the placement of it make sure it makes sense. And that's what I really mean by strategic is just make sure it makes sense to to the average viewer of a website.

Heather: [00:13:16] So as you guys know, we always end each episode with a challenge. So here's your challenge, pretty simple this week. Number one, review your call to action. Um, obviously, if you don't have one, create one, create a call to action and then add it all over your website. Add it all over, um, add it all over your marketing. So side note on that is that if you're doing social media, don't add it to every post. People that just chafes just isn't right, you know? But add it to every fourth or fifth social media post. Um, and, and that's kind of it, you guys. So by doing this you are going to make it clear exactly what you want them to do. What the next step in working with your business is. Um, and you'll see results. It's an easy, a relatively easy fix for your business that will help you see results. So make sure that you are getting prospects and clients to take action by using call to actions. Happy marketing you all. Thanks so much. See you next episode. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Michelle: [00:01:09] Hi, Thank you. Welcome. I am very excited to be here.

Heather: [00:01:13] Yes, Thank you so much. So Michelle, how long have you been an SLP?

Michelle: [00:01:19] So I started practicing in about 20, about 2008. My background is as a school based speech and language pathologist and very early in my career, I really fell in love with the use of technology and how we can use technology to deliver effective services. Um, I live in Massachusetts in a very rural area of the state, and a lot of kids were not receiving the services that they needed. So way back then, before it was even cool, I started looking at Telepractice and how we could use technology specifically Telepractice to deliver direct services. Subsequently, I went on to get my PhD and really focused on the use of Telepractice specifically for students with autism and quickly fell in love with how technology could be used for other things such as workload management. And that kind of brings me to my current project.

Heather: [00:02:24] You have really seen technology change. I mean, you know, I've been building websites for a while, so remember what websites look like 15 years ago. So the fact that you were doing telehealth and that I mean, it was very cutting edge back then. And I'm sure you've seen technology evolve quite a bit in the years.

Michelle: [00:02:42] Absolutely. I mean, even just the access to high speed Internet is a game changer for so many people who want to access clinical services. But shockingly, even now, some students still don't have access. Sometimes we're using wireless hotspots to to deliver services. And that's certainly true in more rural areas of our country as well as in different countries. We're kind of being creative on how we can use technology to deliver services. Um, but yes, people are becoming more used to using and especially over COVID, more used to using technology for services, more familiar with the type of technology. And I think it's becoming accepted not only as this is what we had to do because we were all homebound, but this is really a phenomenal way to access highly specialized clinicians. So it's exciting to absolutely see the different uses and ways that technology can make a difference in our work lives in so many different ways, not just for direct services, but for workload management and thinking about how we can be really smart and strategic on how we use technology to. Help us. Well, in my case. Right. Reports. Yeah.

Heather: [00:04:06] Yeah. And so let's talk about that a little bit more workload management and reports. You know, obviously, as most people in the therapy business know, there are a lot of reports you guys are writing a lot. Um, and so talk about that a little bit. Kind of the early days when you were, you know, first started out and some of the things that you were going with and the struggles.

Michelle: [00:04:32] Well, right. So we diagnostic reports are an absolute essential part of our field. We need them. It kind of creates an entry point into those clinical services. If you're working in the school systems every three years, it's mandatory that we have to do reevaluations. We also get initial referrals from caregivers or teachers, and that those referrals are really increasing. We're seeing an increase in the amount of referrals, but not an increase in the amount of speech and language pathologists that are around to do the referrals. So evaluations take a lot of time and, and they should this we're we're gaining really essential information. And some researchers say that time is anywhere from 8 to 15 hours per evaluation. And so that takes up a lot of time. Yeah. Um, just as part of our job when we're also delivering services, going to meetings, collaborating with colleagues. And so personally, a couple of years ago, around 2008, I was really getting overwhelmed. I was having getting a lot of evaluation referrals and feeling incredibly burnt out, like to the point where I was really considering like another profession. I'm like, I could probably work at Starbucks and kind of get on well, be just fine. But it was that almost that desperation, like that feeling of being incredibly burnt out, incredibly overwhelmed. That forced me to think of another way, a better way of doing some of this, some of the work that we do, having to do with reports that are that's like busywork that takes a lot of manual like human our time to to do. And a lot of us when we do reports a lot of us have text based templates that we pull from people do this all the time.

Michelle: [00:06:52] When I talk to speech and language pathologists, some people are like, I have over 70 pages of all of my templates of different little blurbs for background information or observations of communication. Of course we have templates for different standardized tests that we do and a lot of time goes into searching for those templates that we need, copying and pasting those sections that we want, putting it into our new document, and then switching out name and preferred gender. That takes that takes a lot of time. That also creates errors when when in it's of course accidental errors. But just simply by doing human like that human manual work. We will end up with a wrong name and a paragraph or a gender that perhaps. You know, is inconsistent throughout our reports. Or the worst is when we have standardized tests and the scores and the tables don't match the descriptions or the scores in the write ups. Oh, yeah, that can be really embarrassing. It's unprofessional. It causes a lot of stress, a lot of anxiety. And so I looked to build a platform with my husband, who is a computer programmer, that eliminated all of that busywork. And that's what Easy Report Pro does. It is a library of dynamic templates that are for all of those different sections of a report that you can combine and build a full report template and it automatically has those auto population features in it and the auto score match. And so in a moment you can generate a really comprehensive customized draft with all of your information in there that typically would have taken probably an hour or two.

Heather: [00:08:50] Wow, that's great. And I love that mean because really I use templates in my business when I send out, you know, proposals or anything like that and just adjust them. Um, any time that we can have something templatized it's at least a starting jumping off place. And so I love that you saw that. You're like, I can't do this anymore. I'm not enjoying my work. How can I make work easier? How can I make work better? And so that I love what I'm doing? Because obviously, you know, for many therapists and like for you as an SLP being in your field, you did it because you had a love for working with your clients, not a love for filling out forms. There's no like, Hey, you want to be an SLP, let's fill out forms. Do you enjoy filling out forms? They should maybe ask that.

Michelle: [00:09:42] No, that's a great question. Yeah, there's a better way. Yeah.

Heather: [00:09:46] Yeah. And so and you discovering like figuring out like, okay, I have a problem, you know, what can I take from my experience? And then building on your husband's experience and what can I do to change that? And like you said then that's kind of how easy Report Pro, which is one which is one of your businesses was was born out of a need and for your sanity and then you end up saying, hey, how can I help other people in the business? Right? Yeah.

Michelle: [00:10:22] Absolutely. So when this was first when we first developed it. Yeah, right. It was just for me. And pretty quickly I realized the positive benefits at work, like as soon as I had access to this type of resource. And I love how you said it's kind of like that jumping off point. Um, I had more time to collaborate with my colleagues. I had more time to spend with my students. I was able to like give other additional resources to to people. So it made a real immediate impact in how involved I was. At work. And then. Right. And then. With that, we are like, okay, so what can we do now to to scale this, to make it really accessible for other speech and language pathologists or even other related service providers and are really functional, practical, easy to use way. So over COVID, we spent a lot of time really thinking about how we can bring the use of dynamic templates, customized dynamic templates to other speech and language pathologists. And we did it.

Heather: [00:11:42] I love that. I love that. And you know, you were talking about the amount of hours it takes to write a report and you know, now how long does it typically take you to create a report?

Michelle: [00:11:55] So I can create the draft. And so the draft is a pretty comprehensive, um, I would say 80% of the way completed report in about three minutes. That is a huge difference. Yeah. Then um, the so the platform generates that really comprehensive draft and, and then we just copy and paste it into a word processing system and you carry on as usual. So for me, what used to take several hours to write a report, I'm now doing it in about a half an hour, so more complex ones. I'll definitely spend a lot more time, like maybe 45 minutes to an hour. But what the other thing that I didn't realize like how important it is, the all of my drafts are error free. So I am starting. Not only am I starting off with about 80% of it done in a in a few minutes, I am confident that it's error free. I'm confident that I'm not using the wrong name or the wrong gender or my scores are wrong. So like that going through and like nitpicking of all of that, like of the refinement that used to have to happen when I use my old text based templates, that's eliminated as well.

Heather: [00:13:21] So yeah, and I love that because I actually, you know, I have kids and stuff like that have been an SLP, you know, speech therapy and I've actually received reports with the wrong name on it. Yes, it's 100% have had that happen. So I'm like, yep, it happens.

Michelle: [00:13:39] It happens. And it as a speech, as a pathologist, having that happen, it is the worst. So it's obviously terrible when. Parents get reports with the wrong name on it. But also I'm often in meetings where there's lawyers, there's advocates, there's administrators. And so. Having errors. Unintentional errors like in a report is mortifying. And being able to use a platform where that is eliminated is freeing. It is freeing. Yeah.

Heather: [00:14:13] Yeah. That's amazing. Um, so what? Um, you know, I want to talk a little bit more about templates. Like I guess the big takeaway for us is really step one at least start with templates, right? At least have your templates there. Step two is, you know, mean what could this do for like easy report pro? What could that do for, you know, um, a clinic that has multiple because I know that with a lot of them that are are insurance based they build in hours and they're like, okay you have so long to to create a report. And if you go over that time that's your that's your time, right?

Michelle: [00:14:52] So Easy Report pro saves people time and money really and right So a lot of clinicians have like one hour to write the report and then the rest of that time is non billable hours. So if you can use a platform that. Gives that allows you to create and write that report within the time that you're getting paid for. I mean, that's just an enormous benefit. You're not bringing work home. You're not feeling stressed. You're not feeling negative about, you know, having to write the report in the first place because you have the tools that you need to get it done in the time that you need to get it done. Yeah. Um. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Heather: [00:15:37] Um, so is there a way that they can try this out?

Michelle: [00:15:42] Absolutely. So clinics, um, speech and language pathologist clinics, if they go to report. Com. They can do the free trial and if they put in the code three free just from listening to this podcast, they'll get an additional three months free. Wow. Now I will say, yeah, it's, it's so exciting. And I will say we have clinics who love our templates and they're like, Fantastic. We have this wonderful library to start with, but we also really value our own templates. So a lot of people wonder, can they use their own resources in our platform? And the answer is absolutely yes. You can bring in your templates and using our. Productivity tools. You can make them dynamic, so you can put in the codes that you need to instantly have that auto populate feature, that auto score match feature. You can bring them into our outlines and combine their own, you know, your own customized templates with some of the resources we have in the platform. Mix and match. However, you know, however it works best and access everything through the platform.

Heather: [00:17:03] Wow. Yeah, that's that's great. And I love that they're able to not only try it out for 30 days, but then, you know, have three months free. Um, so, and I know that we were talking about some of the things as far as easy report pro as to where you're going in the future. Right now it's typically for SLPs and then, you know, industries that are very close like, but where are you, where is this going in the future?

Michelle: [00:17:29] Well. Oh, my gosh. So, right, Right now we have a pretty large library, over 800 resources for speech and language pathologists, but we are expanding to other related service providers. So occupational therapy, physical therapy, behavioral health. So whether that's behavioral analysts or psychologists or neuropsychologists vision therapists. Our our goal, our hope are is to have this available for people who work in in the allied health profession. So anybody who does diagnostic reports, diagnostic evaluations can absolutely utilize this type of platform.

Heather: [00:18:17] Yes. Yeah, that's great. Well, thank you so much for being on this episode. And like I said, you know what? When we first met, the big thing that really stuck out to me was your story and just how you, you know, had this problem where it was, I'm burnt out, I'm not enjoying my work, I'm not loving it. And then you created a solution and then shared it with everyone. So I love that. Um, and I think your resource is great. I think that it can help businesses. You want to talk about, you know, scaling your business and things like that, having a way to systematize things and make them into templates and things like that that are going to make work faster, are going to help you grow your business. And so that's what I, you know, I love about Easy Report Pro is that there you know you can be happier with your work you have more time you have time to collaborate, which I think was a great point. Um, because you know, if you don't take something as a business owner, we are so busy, we have so many hats we wear. And if you don't take something off your plate, then there's just absolutely no way to reach out to network to meet people. You're just kind of going through the motions all the time, right? Yeah. Um, so, yeah, so, you know, again, great. Um, like I said, it's a great product and I definitely check it out. Easy Report Pro and, you know, sign up for the free trial and the three months free. So the three was free. Yes. Yes. 

Heather: Um, again, thank you so much. And this is therapy Marketing solutions. Happy marketing, y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Elliot: [00:01:42] Hi Heather.

Heather: [00:01:45] I may accidentally call him like Babe or Jensen or Gents, which are all nicknames that I have for him. So it might be a struggle to actually say. Elliot to call you by like, your given name for me. Um, those are some.

Elliot: [00:01:59] Better names than what my kids call me, but okay.

Heather: [00:02:03] They call you father loving, wonderful provider, right? Yes. Um, okay, so let's talk SEO. So Elliot is working with therapy marketing solutions to provide SEO services to you guys, to our clients. So he is, you know, I know a lot about SEO to get me in trouble. I might know a little bit more than that, but but I definitely, you know, when I have SEO questions, he is my go to guy. So I thought what better than to have him on the podcast today? So let's talk about first what is SEO?

Speaker3: [00:02:46] Well.

Elliot: [00:02:48] Seo is an acronym, obviously, and it stands for search Engine optimization. And what does that mean in layman terms is you're trying to optimize your website. And when we say optimize, it means you're pretty much trying to make it the most presentable, user friendly, and especially most credible in comparison to your your other competitors out there. So there's multiple ways of doing that.

Heather: [00:03:19] Uh, so what are we optimizing our site for? Who are we optimizing our site like?

Elliot: [00:03:25] Okay, so we're optimizing our site for Google, Bing and other browsers. But let's talk about Google specifically Google. What they do is when they're looking for an optimized site is let's let's just use this as a web. So you have a web, a web browser, and they have what they call spiders. So these spiders are actually little bots. They go around and they crawl throughout the websites. So let's say somebody's going in. We just had this experience just now. You're going in, you're doing a search, right? So in the search and this happens instantaneously, this is like the speed of light. They go in and these crawlers will go through and try to find in an index what it is that the person was searching for. So in order for them to do that, they have they'll go through multiple pages and before they index find something that's indexable. So you have a brand new website, they're going to look and see if it's the content is credible, if it's exactly what they're looking for, if it meets certain categories like it's at the. If you have the right keywords that they're searching for, just it just goes on. There's there's lots of things to make it optimize. We could have a whole separate course for this, but that's the things that they're looking for and then it comes back and then they'll be able to index it. So basically, why is it important? Is that what you're going to ask next?

Heather: [00:05:06] Well, want to talk about. About some spiders. So let's talk about these spiders first. So one of the things so in in essence, Google is reading your website. It's reading the content on your website. I read somewhere that that Google spiders have about a sixth grade level of comprehension. And so you want to keep your website at a level that is understandable to a 12, 11, 12 year old. Um, so they read through your website, they read through all your content and based on what you have on your website, they decide if you are a good fit, that if you are going to be, um, you know, put on the list, so to speak, of, of websites, that is going to solve a problem. Because when we go into Google and we enter in search results, if we enter therapist near me, they're going to run through all the sites and they're going to decide which therapist are actually near my location. Um, and so one of the things, you know, there's several things that we can do to, like you said, optimize the site to make the site user friendly and, um, you know, presentable in comparison to what some of your competitors might be doing. I like a quote by Ruth Everett. She's a technical SEO analyst at Deepcrawl, and she says it's important to look beyond rankings and rather ensure a website is usable for everyone. So that's kind of the number one goal, is let's make sure that your website is usable. Let's make sure that your website that it makes sense, what services you provide. Um, those are some important, those are number one priority. And then maybe, you know, somewhere down the line we look at rankings and things like that. But if you are creating a good user experience, then you are going to have good SEO and at least a foundational.

Elliot: [00:07:12] So so let's backtrack on that a little bit though. So what you're getting at is SEO. Back in the days it was all about just the keywords and what they called keyword stuffing. So before Google, Google got smart and they have all these algorithms which are these spiders, and they got smart and realized that this is what a lot of people were doing. They were trying to beat the system. Let's go ahead and let's throw in all these keywords and just stuff them in. But it wasn't really pretty. So for the user like us going in, trying to search for something, it just didn't make any sense. Nothing made sense.

Heather: [00:07:42] Literally written for a computer.

Elliot: [00:07:44] It was written for a computer. But people rather than people. And we just we don't speak like that. So what you're driving at, Heather, is exactly what exactly what Google does now is they're looking more for content, um, rather than specific keywords, not not disregarding keywords. Keywords are still important because, because realistically, you're still somebody's going to type in a phrase or a keyword and it still has to match. But what we're trying to avoid is, is that stuffing. So essentially, I guess the rule of thumb is you're still going to want to put like 2 to 3 keywords within your content, but you still want to make it legible. You want to make it stand out. Yeah.

Heather: [00:08:26] So I tell people about keywords. It's it's not about finding keywords. It's about how you integrate the keywords in your content into the story of your mark, you know, like of your business into engaging with people. So how are you going to use those keywords and then engage with them.

Elliot: [00:08:48] Oh, exactly. So and like I said, the Google's gotten smarter. They're able to to realize. That something is going to be more legible so it's able to actually understand what the eyes are going to be, able to be able to stand, you know, words and phrases, sentences and things that make more sense rather than just a bunch of little short words that's, like you said, is made for a computer. So back to what we can start with. Now we know what it's important. How we can start is actually with the keywords. Um, that's one of the first things you want to do is you want to search as you're building this content. What keywords are your competitors using? What keywords are are hitting or getting the most searches? That's one of the first things you want to look at so that you can you can rank. And it's not just about like we mentioned, it's not just about ranking. It's about being the most credible source out there to find, you know, you're trying to help that person immediately find the information they need. And you want to be the most credible one in there. So it's kind of like I guess we can. Go ahead. There's that quote from Huffington Post.

Heather: [00:10:05] Yeah. Yeah. So why is SEO important? You know, um, in in the basic, most foundational way is because you want to be found, right? Having a website does not mean that anyone's going to find you. It's not. If you build it, they will come. It's not what happens with websites. Um, so you've got to do, you know, this is where SEO comes in. Seo drives traffic to your website. Once they get to your website, then you find great content that resonates with them. But. But why is it important? Huffington Post said the best place to hide a dead body is page two of Google search results. I love that because, I mean, just ask yourself, how often do you go to page two? So, you know, it's I think the big idea here is finding that balance. We can't say it's all about rankings, but we can't say it's not about rankings, too. Right. So we can't say that it's it's not about keywords because we need to use keywords. So it's finding that middle ground in your in your SEO strategy and not just saying. You know, I'm going to shove every word known to man in my website and then I'm going to you know, it's all about getting to number one in the search results and all of that. Because if you get there and then they if someone gets your they may go to your site and they may think your site is pure crud. Exactly. And they'll just leave. Um, so actually, when we were doing a little research right before we did this, we found a site that was it was not even readable. It was, you know, we were doing like some SEO sites and stuff like that. It was, it was not readable. And we were on there three seconds. We scrolled through it. We're like, This is just too much. I can't handle this. It was like content overload because they wanted to have more than X amount of words on a page, right? And so we left. So, you know, it's about finding that balance that is the big thing with SEO.

Elliot: [00:12:08] And that's what that's exactly a good point. It's what we're trying. That's why it's so important, is you're trying to avoid these situations that Heather and I just went into, which is called Bounce. So it's basically you're going in and you find it but you don't like it, so you're bouncing right out of it. You want to be able to continue with that click. So you want people to continue to click, so you want to have that click rate and see these are all terms that Google is using when they analyze is a click rate and a bounce rate. So in order to make your website more presentable and get up there in that in that ranking, you still want to get in that ranking. Um, these are the things you need to do. Um, building keywords around content so that it's more credible and presentable. Yeah. Guess the words you're looking for.

Heather: [00:12:54] So what are some easy things that they can do to get started? Number one is, is build a website. If you don't have a website yet, have a website. We're like, you know, at least a blog post. Just have yeah, so have a website. I'm just going to say have a website. Um, number two that Ella's been talking about is identify keywords. Um, and then number three is what are we going to do with the keywords?

Elliot: [00:13:26] Well, you're going to, you're going to go ahead and take those keywords. And compare them to the comparators to find out which ones are not really comparing comparators. But you can go into. The tools that can assist you to find out what keywords are getting the most hits, the most volume. So if Ubersuggest is one and as a disclaimer, I'm not pushing out to Ubersuggest. This is I'm not an affiliate with them, which is just a tool you can use. Ubersuggest is one of them. There's Ahrefs. They have some free tools as well. There's multiple tools you can go in to help you discover which keywords. And then when we say keywords, we're not just talking about one what they call as a short tail keyword. Like for instance, dog, you're not going to look for dog because if you look for dog, everybody, their dog literally is going to be on there. Right? But there's also long tail keywords, more like phrases. You can say dog collar, you're looking for a dog collar specifically. So these are these are the things you need to keep in mind as you're looking for these keywords. And it's important. It's a little hard when you already have a website and you're trying to build around keywords. Like Heather said, first let's build a website. You know what industry you're in, what you're doing here.

Elliot: [00:14:43] Obviously we're talking about therapists, so you're going to build your website and you're going to start looking for keywords around therapy. Or if you're specializing as a therapist, what kind of things are you specializing in? That's the very first step of SEO really is having that keyword building, that website. You can get into a lot of other things. There's a lot of other um, you go down some rabbit holes, go down rabbit holes, you can have courses, multiple things you can do. But this is the basic key thing to do to start with getting those keywords, building the content, mainly just having the content. Um, then as you're optimizing, you're going to have to go back in. It's, it takes six months to a year to actually. Even start ranking, you know, you're going to probably be in the second page. But if you want to move up in the first page and move up higher, it's a long term process, 6 to 12 months, something you'll have to look at weekly. It is time consuming. It's not rocket science. It's something anybody can dive into. There's a wealth of information out there on the Internet to assist, or you can come to like Heather and myself and we can assist you and help you out with that.

Heather: [00:15:49] So one of the things that we do with our clients is not just like, obviously we work with them to create, identify the keywords, to build content around those keywords on their home page and their about page and all those pages. But then once their site is done, then we work with like creating blog posts and, you know, using the keywords to then create blog posts. And one of the big things that I'm a huge proponent of in blog posts and you guys will find this if you go and start reading my blog, is that if you just answer the questions that they ask. You will. You will have great results, in my opinion, like start, like make a list. What are all the questions that people ask you? What are the FAQs? And then write blog posts on those. If you're, you know, like a speech therapy clinic and someone asks you what are the you know, what should I be looking for in my child to see if they have a speech delay, write a blog post on it. If you, you know, are a physical therapist and and you know what are three common reasons for for back pain write a blog post on it like because someone's going to look for why do I have back pain and then all of a sudden, guess what, your blog post is going to come up. So answer the questions. And I get this from, you know, this is not just like something that I just pulled out of nowhere, but they ask you answer. It's a book by Marcus Sheridan and incredible. He's had incredible results on his website and then ended up building like a whole, you know, digital agency as a result of answering the questions that they have because that's what people are going to go searching for.

Heather: [00:17:44] They may look for therapists near me, but more than likely like what Elliot was talking about when he talked about look for things that might not be quite as common. They might say, Hey, why? Why am I having migraines all the time? Why is this? Why is that so become the the the answer become the solution to their question. And and you will you will drive results to your site and increase business. Um, you know, obviously these things take time. There are a few things that we could go on and on about all the things you could do for your website, but absolutely, um, some, some fast things, some quick, some quick wins, I guess I should say. Maybe we should talk about some quick wins, make sure your images are optimized. And what I mean by that is that they are the right size for viewing. Make sure you have good hosting website hosting if you're hosting is. You know, your brothers, uncles, cousin, whatever, decided to offer you hosting? Beware. Because if you're hosting is slow, your website is slow. Guess what's going to increase your bounce rate? Bounce rate? Yep. Um, so just doing just a few of those little what are some other just really quick wins that you could say. Make sure there's no dead links on your website, right? That's another one. Meaning like a link that goes into oblivion, you know?

Elliot: [00:19:16] Yeah. The 4 or 3 links when you see three errors. Yeah, it's called. Yeah, it's.

Heather: [00:19:21] Called a four. What is it? Three errors. Yeah. 403 error. And that just means it's a dead link.

Elliot: [00:19:27] That's where you have to go in and redirect it. So again, that's where we can assist you. But like you said, you can just go down in a rabbit hole. There's so many things. But going back, the biggest thing obviously you have to have a website, keywords have to have keywords. And more importantly, I think that's what Heather is driving at, is just content. Make sure you build the content and the blogs and and be out there. You know, these blogs are to be linking back to your to your web page. Make sure you do that, link them back.

Heather: [00:19:59] So our challenge for you for this episode is just do one thing. Just just pick one thing. You know, like I said, you know, SEO can be overwhelming. It could you can go down rabbit holes easily. You can be like. It can be so overwhelming. You're like, Forget it. I don't care. Like, I get it. But just pick one thing. Just decide, you know, what if I just if I write a blog post once a month, like, you know, you don't have to like, this isn't something that you need to, like, dedicate your whole entire life to and decide that, you know, you need to carve out six hours a week or whatever it is. It's a slow process. I do have you know, I would say that the more you're building out, the faster your results are going to show. But doing something is going to benefit you in some way. And so actually, that goes to another quote. Julie Joyce, who's the owner of Link Fish Media. She says almost anything can be improved in some way. So make small, you know, like. Little changes on your website make small little changes. Add a blog, do this, do that, whatever. Just little tiny things will add more SEO. Oh, I have another quick one before we go. If you are a local, um, if you are a local business, meaning that you serve a local population. Put the areas that you serve on your site, put your city on your site, Just put your address, put your address on there, put your address on your site so that and you know, so that people can find you just that right there. Quick win. Make sure that your address is there. So any other parting words before we go, Elliot?

Elliot: [00:21:56] No, I think we've hit all the major points. Just what I think the biggest thing is, is when you build that website. Just make sure you have the right content, you know, make sure you know who your audience is and just write nice content. Make sure it's nice and clear. That's the biggest thing. Honestly, that's one major thing I've been noticing that Google is changing is it's becoming a lot more intelligent. I've said this already and I just want to emphasize it.

Heather: [00:22:29] So yeah. Content, content.

Elliot: [00:22:32] Content. Content. Content content. Exactly.

Heather: [00:22:35] Thank you, guys. Thanks so much, Elliot, for being on my being my surprise guest. Surprise in multiple ways. So not only was he a surprise to you, but it was a surprise to him, too. But thank you for being on this. And we will probably have him again. Maybe we'll give him, like, you know, a little bit more notice. But I just thought, you know, I'm doing a podcast on SEO. I should probably have an SEO expert with me to help me out. So there was one easily accessible. Um, so anyways, so again, you guys keep doing what you're doing, keep, you know, just small little shifts in your marketing make a difference. And I just want to leave by saying happy marketing, y'all. Until next time.

Elliot: [00:23:28] Bye.

HeatherH: [00:23:29] We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Sarah: [00:01:02] By having us.

Heather: [00:01:06] So let's just jump right into it. You have been in business for four and a half years, right? Yes. Yes. And then how long have you both been SLPs? Speech language pathologists before that?

Melissa: [00:01:22] I'm in my 20th year. I know it makes me sound old, but I used to be experienced. Yes.

Sarah: [00:01:30] And I'm in my 12th year. Yes.

Heather: [00:01:32] Yeah, yeah. No, that just goes for experience. Melissa. That's all right. Um, and then what made you guys open? We are better together.

Melissa: [00:01:45] I think that we just we saw a need in the community and we had a lot of people that we had made connections with in a previous job and in the schools that we were currently working in that were like, When are you opening? We need help. We need you to help see these kids. And we were just like, Well, I think we can do it. And so we came together and we spent about a year trying to kind of come up with the the game plan. And we wanted to make sure that we would have everything in place and ready and no questions. And like everything, we have to be planners, I guess, just to like make sure that it was going to work before we did it. And then then we did. And it's been crazy. And we've grown a ton. And we just keep growing in.

Heather: [00:02:38] More ways than one, right?

Sarah: [00:02:40] More ways than one. Yes. Part of the planning process, too. We wanted to make sure we had everything planned out because we didn't want we knew we wanted to be business owners, but we also wanted to still be speech therapists. So we wanted to go into it knowing everything ahead of time and knowing we had the time to commit to being business owners, but also still being able to be speech therapists and and work in the field. So we've managed to do that the whole time and we're very proud of that. So I love that. I love that you.

Heather: [00:03:08] That you still have that goal, to still be seeing clients and working with clients, because being a business owner is, is hard work just in that of itself and then trying to see clients on top of that, that's it's a lot more work. So I love that you guys have that goal and it helps you to stay in touch with not only just the industry, but with, you know, with your clients.

[00:03:32] For sure. Yeah.

Sarah: [00:03:33] Well, I think.

Melissa: [00:03:33] That the employees that we work with, they are glad that it's not just some management telling them what to do, but that we have experience as therapists and we've been through the things and the struggles that they are dealing with and we're able to problem solve that with them.

Heather: [00:03:51] Yeah, Yeah. And I know that when you guys were establishing your business, you did have some, some things that you had noticed in prior work experiences that you wanted to make sure to avoid. Right? That you were like I've seen where maybe, you know, in the culture isn't right or something like that. So you wanted to be aware of that in the planning process?

Sarah: [00:04:12] For sure, yeah. We had a lot of a long list. Our biggest thing was wanting to work with cool people and being able to take care of our employees. Like we weren't going to start something if we couldn't take care of them and have, you know, kind of like a family, I guess. And so that was kind of one of our main goals is, was that and but also like when we interview people, I mean, we want to be their friend. Like that's, you know, that like we want that to have a, um, you know, have that feeling about them when we interview them and like they would fit, like maybe they don't like exactly everything we do and they're not, you know, maybe in a different set of time of life, but, but they have the same values and drive, I guess. And so that's, that's kind of what we were looking for.

Heather: [00:04:54] Yeah, you guys have done a lot to really ensure that that culture, that right culture is there and that everyone feels connected and a part of the community. I think that's great. Um, so one of the things when you guys first started, if I remember correctly, really, you started with like a couple of school contracts, correct?

Sarah: [00:05:15] Yes. Yeah, we both had individual school contracts kind of in rural areas out here.

Heather: [00:05:22] And how did you go about getting those? Like what? We're kind of some of the first steps.

Melissa: [00:05:29] I think that what we were both leaving a previous employer and we knew that we didn't want to step on anyone's toes. We wanted to, you know, make it like we weren't stealing any of our clients or anything like that. And so we were like, We just need to, like, start fresh. So we reached out to some of the surrounding school districts and say, This is what we have to offer for you. We had done contracting before with a with our previous employer, and so we knew that that was an option. And we knew that that was going to be helpful in meeting our goals to open a business is that, you know, we weren't going to be working five days a week for someone else. We wanted to to start our own thing. And so we ended up going separately to on our own for a little bit. And then when we opened Better together, we came back together and started and then we incorporated our previous into that, out into Better Together. Yeah, we had already been working for the district, so they trusted us and they knew what we were going to offer.

Heather: [00:06:36] Do you do you guys have like kind of an ideal district or school that you like to work with? Are you have you like kind of identified things that you like versus things that you don't like when you know, like maybe size or location or anything like that?

Melissa: [00:06:54] Like smaller schools?

Sarah: [00:06:55] Yeah, small. I love the small towns and that's kind of what we both picked. Um, I grew up in a small town, and so the school district that I am still a part of that I started working at six years ago, five years, however many years ago. Uh, they, it's very similar to my home town district and I would say very similarly run. And so it kind of felt like home to me. I see preschool all the way through high school, so it's really fun to be able to see like that whole transition. I mean, I have a student, you know, who transitioned to middle school a couple of years ago, and I've got to see her from the time she was, you know, in elementary all the way up. So that's that's fun. And I love that. Yeah. Um, yeah, when we take.

Heather: [00:07:35] Definitely. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Melissa: [00:07:37] I was just going to say, when we take contracts, it's sometimes nice to have a few littler charter schools or some smaller contracts to fit in nooks and crannies and the. And the girls schedules. Just because, you know, it's easy to run and go see five kids at at a charter school on a Wednesday that you don't have a lot of other kids. And so those are kind of nice to piece in to fill a full schedule. Um, and we have a lot of employees that want to work both at the clinic and at school. And so it kind of gives them a feel for both.

Sarah: [00:08:10] Mm hmm.

Heather: [00:08:11] Yeah. So what are some of the things that you've learned along the way? Because I know that, you know, there's definitely a learning curve in working with schools and developing contracts and identifying the kind of schools that you want to work with and things like that.

Melissa: [00:08:27] Yeah, I think in this day and age where like we are seeing such a shortage in therapists that it's hard to not just grab onto whoever we get to apply and just give them a job just to have a warm body fill a position. Because we know that a little bit from experience that that doesn't always work and ends up being a lot of work for us. And it also, you know, threatens your reputation within the community, too, because someone's not representing you the way that that we would. And so, you know, we don't want to have to like let people go because we feel like that we are trying to build that culture and family. And so we feel like that it's better to kind of vet people ahead of time and just make sure that they're the right fit before making a commitment, I guess.

Sarah: [00:09:19] Yeah. And along those same lines, not taking every school contract that jumps out at us as well, because we've definitely made that mistake in the past of taking anything and everything that would come up. And then we're working more than we can even think.

Melissa: [00:09:35] We have like a big heart and then we want we see these people and they're like, but we need help. And then Sarah and I are like, Well, we don't want to do that to the employee, so we'll just take that on. And then by Christmas time we're like, Oh my goodness, this is a lot like, What were we thinking? We don't have enough time. So I guess learning to say no is something we both have had to work on.

Heather: [00:09:57] Yeah. Um, now, I think you said, Sarah, that one of the things you do is that you, you learn a lot more about the school or the district or whatever so that you can understand them better and know that if it's a good contract or if it's something that will fit within your business model, right?

Sarah: [00:10:16] Yeah, we do ask a lot more questions now when we take school contracts, if they're new to us, if it's somebody we we don't know, currently we're spread throughout. Different school districts. So we have quite a few different and that's including some charter schools as well. There's a couple of charter schools in the same school district. So but yeah, asking questions and making sure that we know fully what they need us for and what our role is going to be, and then making sure we have the therapists to fill that role. Also, we don't ever want to just take a school contract and throw a therapist there that's not really comfortable. Maybe seeing high school students or if that school has an extended resource room or a behavior, you know, classroom for students who have different kinds of behaviors. We don't want to put a therapist there that might not feel comfortable or be as experienced in treating kids with, you know, those areas in those areas. And so we just kind of we always want to make sure it's a good fit for the therapist when when we place them there and when we take a school contract, when somebody contacts us, we kind of already have in mind who we might want to put there if they like us and we like them just based on, you know, we know our therapists pretty well too, in their age ranges and what they like. And so we kind of always have that in the back of our head when we take a school contract. Well, you know, this might be a good fit for. And so.

Melissa: [00:11:35] Yeah, we, you know, we our degree is so broad and we can see mean birth to death like the whole range. But we know that we've narrowed down to schools. But even within that, not all therapists are good with little tiny preschoolers or infants, and not all therapists are good with high school kids. And so we it's nice to have that variety and be able to kind of match people up with what they feel comfortable with. Um, and then another. I would say another thing. Sorry to step back, but like, the thing about what we've learned is along that same line is that there's a lot of therapists that will come to us and they'll say, I want to make a change. Say they've worked in a skilled nursing facility for, you know, 40 years, and they're like, I just want to work with kids because that sounds fun. Um, and then they come to this setting and think they have no idea what they're getting into and no idea how to write IEPs and to do some of that school or little kid activities. And it just seems fun. And I've seen that backfire a couple of times along the way. And I just I guess, would just really caution people that are going to make such a drastic change without, you know, really knowing what they're getting into.

Heather: [00:12:53] Yeah, definitely. Um, I love that you want to fit. Find something that fits right for your therapist as well as right for the school so that you create that win win for everyone. And everyone's happy. They're all, you know, especially the therapists. They're feeling like they are fulfilling their purpose, and then the school is fulfilling their their students needs. So it's really a win win. So one of the things that I love that you guys do is that, you know, one of the things with school contracts is that schools typically, you know, nine months out of the year. And so if you have a lot of therapists and then with summer, there's kind of that, what do you do with your therapist? And I love some of the things that you guys have done with your summer camps. And not only does it give like, is it, you know, something for to offer, but then it also helps kids during the summer to maintain their skills. So I can speak one of my kiddos, two of my kiddos actually went through your summer camp several years ago and they loved it. They had so much fun. So I was really impressed. I've always been really impressed with your summer camps. So speak to me about that. What does that look like?

Sarah: [00:14:10] It's a lot of planning, a lot of carried up. We usually start planning brainstorming ideas like come January, February, just big broad ideas and then narrowing them down by spring break because that's when we start advertising what we're doing. When the when the dates are parents are already by spring break thinking about the summer and what they're what they're wanting, or if they're needing extra care for their kids during the summer or if they're needing extra programs for them to do. And so kind of having the the schedule down then and then really we this last we learn a lot every year. So every year we kind of take a couple more steps forward based on things we learned from last year. So something we learned two years ago was that we wanted to have more therapists plan them. So there was a variety of activities and there was just different things going on every time. Sometimes you have therapists who are more geared toward planning little kid things or big kid things, and then we were finding that that was hard. You know, you get this box of stuff for every summer camp and and you have a we have a kid come in and they don't like any of the toys in that activity box that we had.

Sarah: [00:15:21] So we had a committee last year of made of four different therapists and OT and three speech therapists. And that committee planned the themes and they planned the activities within those themes like down to every minute detail. They basically mean they have like a schedule that they had used that we have used for the past few years, and they tweaked that to make sure we fit what we needed going forward and and then planned all the activities and crafts and snacks and all that kind of stuff, having new people help plan it that have done it before and people who haven't done it before was awesome because they brought new ideas to the team and new things for that because a lot of times these are the same kids that participate in our summer camps every summer. So it's a little bit we did a little bit different things this summer and it was they had a lot of fun with that.

Melissa: [00:16:10] So so when we do those themes, we have everything geared around our snack is around our book is around the theme, our craft like every single thing. And so that's where she's saying it takes a lot of work to to do that but feel like it's worth it. Um, we have, you know, been able to expand out to more some of our rural school districts. They aren't able to kind of come into the metro area that we are. Our office is just with limitation, with like funds and being able to drive in that far. And so we've been coming to them and with those connections that we've made with our administration, they've been allowing us to use space there because they have seen the impact that it's had on their kiddos. And so they want us to be able to to keep providing that. And so they've been very good and hospitable to letting us come in.

Heather: [00:17:05] That's great. Um, are the, the programs, the summer camps, are they typically like a one week they go through or do they continue on throughout the whole entire summer? What does that usually look like?

Melissa: [00:17:15] We do two four week sessions. You can do the whole thing because it would be different. We do eight weeks total and every week is different along that eight weeks. So it would be functional for them to come to every week, but they could do just the four weeks we do four weeks before 4th of July, take a week off, and then we do four weeks before or sorry, after 4th of July. And that actually ends up being perfect because some of the schools start like really soon into August. And so it just kind of gives them maybe one more week and then they start back up to school and they're not losing a lot of skills because they've been working on them most of the summer. Yeah.

Heather: [00:17:56] What age is typically are these other summer camps for?

Melissa: [00:18:01] Like school age, like kindergarten through.

Sarah: [00:18:03] Fifth grade, I would say. We've had an occasional kid that's a little younger or older that fit in. If they are outside that age range, we usually make sure that they're it's recommended by their therapist here and they have. Last summer, if we had a couple kids that came, they had to come and do an evaluation here and then, you know, have 3 or 4 therapy sessions beforehand. So the therapist could really make sure that that would be a good recommendation and fit for them to to come. But typically kindergarten through fifth grade.

Sarah: [00:18:31] Yeah.

Melissa: [00:18:32] And we want we just and I know we had chatted a little bit about it but we had we have just hired a health coach to work with us and in doing and starting that, she has kind of sent out a need survey to our staff and to our parents about what we feel like that, you know, we could offer to them. That would help. And one of the the key areas is kind of the the adolescent group into young adults. And so we are hoping to be able to with taking on that health coach position, being able to add some some different programs for a little bit older kids that target their their needs as well.

Heather: [00:19:12] Yeah, I love that you asked the community, um, you know, and you saw that there's a need after asking and figuring it out and, you know, and kind of brainstorming, well, what could we offer to the community that's so great?

Melissa: [00:19:26] And sorry, one more person we did ask. Sorry, was we asked the health coaches at the doctor's office or the health health coaches care coordinators at the doctor's offices, because they're the ones that are trying to find programs for kids. And we are asking them to like what are what are the needs? What what can we help you with? When you look in this area, what what is lacking? And so I feel like that that's been a good business. Building opportunity, too, is just working closely with the care coordinators.

Sarah: [00:19:58] Yeah.

Heather: [00:19:59] Yeah. And really that that age group is so underserved at times as far as and it's more challenging. You know, you can't just bring out some kind of little craft and be like, Hey, let's work on this with your sounds. It's a little bit it's a little bit more extra work for you guys, I'm sure. But I love that you, you know, are always looking for more opportunities to serve the community in that way. So, um, so what are some takeaways? We always like to finish the podcast with maybe a challenge or a takeaway, um, for our listeners.

Melissa: [00:20:34] I think think outside the box. We don't want we don't want to be stagnant. We don't want to be or we don't want our kids to be bored. We want to be constantly changing and making things better. We don't want it to be a typical, uh, not a typical I shouldn't say that, but we don't want a therapy clinic where you just come in to your therapy, you go home. We want to have the the patients that come to our clinic feel like that we are a part of the family. We can help them with other resources. We we want to be part of their life and not just come in, come out like 30 minute sessions or 45 minute sessions and then not see you again till the next week. So think there's always some way to help people and being creative and having those people that work for you that want to be part of that mission is 100% what makes us successful.

Heather: [00:21:37] Yeah. And I think it really encapsulates, you know, your name. We are better together. So really, you know, that idea that if you're working together towards a common goal, you're able to serve your clients better. So. Well, Thank you guys so much for being on the podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. Um, and I just want to, you know, challenge everyone to think outside the box. Like they said, I really do think that when you can learn from other therapists and see what they're doing, you're able to grow your own business. So happy marketing you all and we'll see you next time. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

[00:02:23] It makes your business look more professional, it legitimate. It makes your business look legitimate. Because if you don't have a good design, then people wonder, is this a hobby? Is this a side business? Like they just they feel it. And that's the big thing with appeal is when it's not appealing. People notice that is even. Good design. You know. Just looks good. People think it looks good. They don't really think a lot about it. Bad design. Bad design is noticeable. People notice bad design. They realize that something is off. There's just seems to be like this tension about it. So there are a couple of rules when when you want to when you're designing something, first off, you want to keep your colors and your fonts consistent. You want to make sure that you are using the same fonts on your website, on your social media. On your. In your logo, like be consistent in colors and. Fonts. When you are consistent, people recognize your brand. If you saw the Golden Arches, which obviously I'm referring to McDonald's in pink or Orange something, you'd be like, what is that, a different company? There's just it's just not right. So consistent in colors and fonts. And then you want to make sure that your colors and fonts are appropriate for your audience. What that means is that you probably don't want to use. Have you ever seen that font that looks like chalk? You probably don't want to use that if you're law office, right? That just wouldn't really set you up as a professional business. So you want to make sure that your colors and your fonts are appropriate for the the audience that you are catering to. So if you are catering to children, like if you're. A. Pediatric therapy, you're obviously have a lot more play with being. You can be playful with your colors and fonts a little bit more if you and that's not to say that you can't use bright colors if you're if your business is geared towards adults, that does not mean that. But we just just be thoughtful in your colors and your fonts and please do not use comic sans, comic sans or papyrus for fonts.

[00:04:50] That's all I'm going to say about that. They are not considered real fonts in the design world. There are several others, but I won't go into those. Those are the most popular that people tend to use. And then the last idea really with the appeal factor is that less is more. If you over design your flier or website, it becomes overwhelming. Don't you don't need to try to fill up every nook and cranny. Of. Of your website or your flier or whatever, you know, white space, as it's called, which is the negative space that is not being. Used. Is is good. It allows the design to breathe. And. It allows people to be able to really take in what you have on on your flier or on your website or whatever they're able to to digest it. Better. And to understand it. So Ellen Lupton, she's a designer and educator. She says design is as much an act of spacing as an act of marking. And so that's where that space you need to let it breathe. Don't feel like every little thing needs to be We need to have something in this corner or whatever. There is a balance to that, obviously. But but I think more people tend to make the mistake of over designing versus under designing. Oc. So function. Function. What does that have to do with design? That isn't something that a lot of people really think about in design. Well, your design needs to be functional, especially when it comes to your website. When you are creating your website, you need to make sure that your design makes sense, that the layout of your website makes sense and and even to the point of your navigation menu to your different pages. Those need to be designed thoughtfully. So you don't want to get too crazy on your design that no one can find the other pages. You also want to make sure that it just makes sense again for your audience. Steve Jobs says design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works. Could you imagine if Apple made the most beautiful iPhone ever but it didn't function?

[00:07:21] And that's the same thing with your website or whatever you are designing. It needs to be functional, it needs to make sense and it needs to be easy to navigate. That's part of the design, especially with a website. You need to be able to navigate it well. So design is about marrying functionality with esthetics. Your website needs to be able to function. It needs to be easy to navigate and needs to look good. There is a strategy to good design. It's not just throwing a bunch of colors here and there and filling a bunch of boxes or whatever. But on the other side, it's interesting because good design actually looks very effortless. It goes back to that thing that that idea. That. People notice bad design a lot more than good design because good design is comforting. It's it feels right. And often we feel we notice the negative feelings before we ever. Notice the. The good feelings. So third story, again, as Story Brand certified guide, this should come know as no surprise to you that design needs to have a story. Lorinda Mamo, who's a designer, said every great design begins with an even better story. So one mistake that I see a lot of business owners make is they first hire a web designer and then they go and look for a copywriter. And in reality, it needs to be the other way around. If you create your design, then all of a sudden you're trying to squish content in the spaces that are available for it. When in reality, if you create your content with a strategy, then you're able to create a design around it. And I mean, you don't want to like, be able to like, Oh, I only have room for like a sentence or two in this one section when in reality you need more to really explain your services. So you want to be able to make sure that you have the space. And. The layout that makes sense for the words on your site. So. You know, if if a prospect who's coming to your site, if you really think about it, the determining factor in whether they pick you or another therapist is is what is said on your site.

[00:09:48] So if the if what you're saying, the content, the copy, the words resonate with them, then they're going to say, yes, this is the therapist for me. This is the person I want to work with. And so we really need to focus on content first and then to create an incredible design that tells a story around your content. Great design brings your message, your brand, and the elements all into an inviting story. If you. Really think about it, it's like if you had a present or a. Gift. The content is the present and the design is the wrapping and the bow around it. It's beautiful, it looks great. But other than to kind of decorate the box, it doesn't really. Have. A ton. Of. Of reason behind it. Really what we want to do is we want to open that box, we want to read the content and we want to find that. There's. Depth and layers to your website and to anything, really. So what are the three things? Again, we want to make sure that we that our design is appealing. If you're not sure if it's appealing, ask someone, ask your email clients. We want to make sure that it functions well. Again, you can ask them because if they are not familiar with it, they'll tell you. They're like, Well, I don't really get why this buttons are here or where it goes or what the purpose of that is. And then you really want to make sure that your design creates a story, that it invites them further in on the website. It's kind of like little breadcrumbs bringing you in further. So challenge for this week, just do it as Nike says. Just do it. Don't be afraid of it. I hope after talking about design that I have gotten more excited about it versus made you afraid of it. Get your hands dirty and don't be afraid to make mistakes. I mean, when I first started as a graphic web designer, not everything was beautiful. I'll just be right out blunt with you. Not everything was. Beautiful. So Paula Shear, who's a graphic designer and painter, says it's through mistakes that you actually can grow.

[00:12:09] You have to get bad in order to get good. And I 100% agree with that. I have like I said, I have design things that I'm like, what is wrong with that? And then redesigned it and I'm like, okay, I had to. I had it. Sometimes even in my design process, the first thing I make is ugly. And then from there I'm like, Well, that's not right. Something doesn't feel right. And then from there, all of a sudden these ideas come. And so it's almost like I have to purposely design something bad in order to design something great afterwards. I don't know if that's a part of my process or what. But it's exploring new ideas. And so, you know, working through that being don't be afraid, just jump in and do it and have fun with it and get creative with it. So just want to send that out there for the challenge of the week. Just do it to get your hands dirty. Thank you guys for coming to this episode. Listening. I'd love to see comments and thoughts on on this episode and design as well. And happy marketing you all Until next time. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you're interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C. Digital Media networks or Therapy Marketing Solutions. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Rolf: [00:00:57] Well, hey, how are you? Nice to have. Thanks for having.

Heather: [00:00:59] Me. Yes. Thank you so much for being here. You know, kind of how I envisioned this episode or how it came to be is like many people within who work with HIPPAA and I work with a lot of clients who have HIPPAA, who HIPPAA is a concern. You know, I went down that rabbit hole and I started researching and reading and you can spin out days, really not hours, days, researching HIPPAA and trying to understand it. So I thought, what a better solution than to have a lawyer come and talk to us about HIPPAA and get a deeper understanding of what HIPPAA is, how you should be using it in your business to protect yourself, and then, of course, to protect your client's privacy. So first off, I'd love to hear a little bit about your firm, Locklear Associates, what you do, how long you've been in business, where you're located, things like that.

Rolf: [00:01:58] So we're we're a health care law firm, primarily focused on servicing providers and people that work in the industry handle a range of matters. A lot of federal and state regulatory guidance payer disputes things along that nature, business matters. And then obviously for the thing that I'm here to talk about is patient privacy and confidentiality. And that is a category that is not just concerned with HIPPAA, but there's also state laws and people's professional obligations under their respective profession. And then then there's things out there that are I'm not sure that a lot of people you work with. Right. But there are privacy statutes for substance abuse regulations, people who can't provide that kind of treatment. And as as we kind of get through this. Right. I don't think I think that the marks should be always be that you have always had a duty of confidentiality to the people that you are treating as patients. It goes back hundreds of years, your professional societies, your state boards all imposed those confidentiality requirements on it. HIPPA is a little bit of a nuance because it brings in this term covered entity. A lot of people wonder if they are a covered entity and it focuses more on the hook of the payment for services that's electronically transmitted to typically a payer that brings HIPPAA oversight and the federal government, Health and Human services into your practice.

Heather: [00:03:37] So, yeah, and you broke it down a little bit. Let's let's just start what is HIPPAA?

Rolf: [00:03:43] So it was a statute that was enacted back in the nineties. Congress was concerned that people's health information was freely transmitted through payor portals, through from providers to everything, so that there was this law that was enacted primarily to protect people's information, which it still does today. And from that, it had some developments in the last 10 to 15 years, I'd say focusing more on the security requirements, things along those lines for the digital age. And so it has really kind of taken off like any legislation. Well, it's developed more legs that you have to pay attention to as you go along. And its design is to basically allow the transmittal of patient information amongst practitioners, insurance companies, and this thing called clearinghouses, which is where a claim goes to get processed, kind of leave that there because it's the third, third component of this that not a lot of people know about. But if you're involved in any billing or transaction things, you'll understand what that is. And the clearinghouse is also carry out some functions for the federal government and some state governments as well. So in a sense it's really just kind of how we are supposed to treat people's information when we have the ability to disclose it with or without consent. What a patient's rights are, that's a big part of HIPPA is that the patient has a right to their information that's in their medical record and that you hold about them. And that is kind of always that we get back to state law, right? A lot of states view their medical record access acts and things like that. Is that that is the patient's information. So you kind of always got to remember that there's the federal government and the state government to always think about in any practice. So if you're practicing in Indiana, you know, you have to take consideration state statutes in Indiana and then figure out if HIPPAA does actually apply to your practice. Hmm.

Heather: [00:05:50] Yeah. And it sounds like what HIPPAA started out as, like you said, with technology changing is different than what it's become. It's kind of evolved throughout the years and changed to shape different services and and how you protect your clients and things like that. So I know that when we talked in the past, one of the big questions is what kind of clinic or practices need to adhere to HIPPAA?

Rolf: [00:06:20] So the kind of the catch, as I said earlier, is, you know, our firm takes a view and other people will as well. And maybe not I mean there's a lot of things about the law is it's reasonable interpretation of something that maybe hasn't been decided. But, you know, a cash based practice that's purely cash based, probably one could argue isn't covered by the HIPPA statutes, but it is the standard of care that's going to be applied, so to speak, in the best practice when it comes to everything state boards that regulate you. Other other enforcement agencies kind of see it as the way to operate. It has a lot of mechanisms in it, but the kind of the hook has always been is, is that you're submitting an electronic claim for reimbursement and the partners that are involved in that process. Right. So you have your practice, you you're billing for services that you provided to either an employer plan, a federal plan such as Medicare and Medicaid, and you're you're submitting that. And once you kind of get into the realm of having one or two, once you do submit an electronic claim, it covers everything, right? So even your cash based business will become covered by those standards. And then there is a there's a reasonable force that, regardless of how you're getting paid, is that this information is expected to be protected and you're supposed to have some security functions in place, a way of operating your business that meets these expectations.

Heather: [00:07:59] Yeah. One of the things that I know that we we were talking before that you said that I really liked, it's not just it's a standard of care and that state boards and things like that expect it. But also, you know, it's something that prospective clients or clinicians or sorry prospective clients expect they, they want to see that their information is, is secure and private. And so it does a lot to build trust and authority, even if you are a cash based business.

Rolf: [00:08:32] Correct. And right. And there's this general consensus about that's in the general public that anything about your health information is protected by hip. So I sit here as an individual and anything that has to do with my health is protected by HEPA. And I can claim some type of hip hop sea privacy right to that. Right. So you'll see this in situations where like recently with with the pandemic that took place in the last couple of years. Right. Somebody may be asked by a restaurant about their vaccine status and the individual will say, well, I don't have to tell you that because that's protected by HIPPAA. Right. That's not really how it works. It's the provider, the covered entity that has a duty to keep that information confidential, Your own information that you carry about you once it gets once you have it and it's out, isn't isn't protected by HIPPAA. If I get a copy of my medical records from my provider. And I lose it somewhere at a Starbucks or any coffee shop or even on the street, and somebody else gains access to that and does a public disclosure of it like my my hip of rights really weren't violated because I had possession of that information.

Rolf: [00:09:42] Not my doctor, not my physical therapist, not the hospital. It was in my possession. I let it out and somebody somebody gave that out, you know, or if somebody has some information that they take to a court hearing that they got after this happens quite a bit. Right. You know, maybe there's a divorce proceeding or something like that. And they know some information about the spouse or everything like that. They have that information. It's been access to them. The covered entity hasn't done anything other than released it, hopefully in a way that was consistent with the rules under HIPPAA. To somebody and now somebody else has access to it. As long as the covered entity is doing the things that they're supposed to be in the covered entity. Again, it's kind of those three areas we talked about the provider, the health insurance company and the clearinghouse. Then they don't really have anything to concern about. Doesn't mean that people will not continue to articulate that they think that their HIPPA rights have been violated.

Heather: [00:10:43] Yeah, yeah, I know that we learned a lot during the pandemic as people were rushing to figure out how to continue to see patients and clients. You know, there was some gray area where people were just like, Well, I think I can do this. I think I can do that. And, you know, like, like meeting via like zoom for HIPPAA came up very quickly in that process is what you how you could meet with patients and clients via video chat and what were the best ways. So we learned a lot during that time I think.

Rolf: [00:11:20] Yeah I mean there was there was, I will say, a little bit of a relaxation on what had been typically been the telemedicine rules for services being rendered. And the requirements for that, particularly in behavioral health, was one area and some other areas, Some other areas. I mean, there are certain services you could never provide over the telephone that people couldn't do. But so, you know, whether or not the patient was in a secure environment communicating with you all, a lot of those things were relaxed. But, you know, and that's a good thing, you know, generally speaking. And the thing that is always kind of needs to be understood with HIPPA is, you know, the patient controls the dialog, the patient controls the records, right? So you as a provider, there are possibilities for you. You know, you want to make sure that you're getting a consent possibly to communicate in a way that HIPPA might not accept as favorable. Right? So, you know, you are allowed as long as the patient understands the risks associated with it, to communicate and platforms or in a way in on a platform that may not be meet the security protocols of what's called the High Tech Act, which is the second part of HIPPA, right? There's HIPPA and there's the high tech Act. And the high tech act really is designed and has a lot of regulations that if you're going to get into them, you just kind of need to understand them. Maybe consult with somebody who's got some privacy experience and certainly some security experience. You know how you're supposed to hold that information? Transmit that information. What do you do when you have a when you have a leak of that information and things like that? So there's a lot of broad things that come under this statute. And it's it's not easy to cover just an hour with you or 45 minutes however we spend.

Heather: [00:13:08] Yeah, definitely. There's so much to know. So when do you when does hippies start and when does it end? Like, when do you need to ensure that HIPPAA is in place? And we kind of talked about this before, how things are changing, especially in recent news.

Rolf: [00:13:26] Yeah, right. So, so you're if you, if you find yourself deemed as a covered entity. Right. So then the the regulations are going to apply to you. Now, granted, there's a reasonableness in this statue, right? Because there's a lot of solo practitioners and things like that that may have operations, but all the expectations are there from you format for person shop, right? You know, you got like maybe three providers and an office person, let's say. So a large health system that covers many states. I think the concepts and everything is the same. So when people are coming to you to seek services from you, right, you're kind of opening the door for treating that information confidential. It's really no different than if somebody had called your office and you got kind of like always with these with these concepts that are new with this digital age, right? If somebody calls your office saying, Hey, you know what? I have this condition and I'm looking for a provider that can provide this type of treatment that I'm looking for. I mean, that phone call, whether or not they show up for their appointment, that you schedule out two weeks, you're going to keep that information confidential. You're taking a query in and talking to someone, Right? So you have a duty to keep things confidential going forward.

Rolf: [00:14:43] So the trigger is almost there. As soon as the person finds you, accesses you on your website or whatever it might be, once they kind of respond back, I'd say, Right, you're there. And then the hook will always be as well is if they are a truly an existing patient. Mm hmm. So if you're sending out a mass email, Right. I mean, how that works out, right? You can't. You can't. You've got to take into consideration that that marketing email, if you've gotten the proper consent to do the marketing to existing patients through your through your privacy practices that you have in place, that you can go ahead and do that and then you do that in a certain way. And then you've got to understand that the people that you're working with to to assist you in that are not handling as well protected health information under HIPPAA and they're out, you have an obligation to make sure that they're treating that information with the same expectations of you. And those people are typically called business associates. And you're supposed to have a business associate agreement in place with them.

Heather: [00:15:48] Yeah. So two things. One is a lot of businesses that I work with and and actually one of the marketing things that we put into place, aside from just creating a website, would be something like a lead generator where, you know, it's five ways to to help with anxiety or five things to do if with chronic back pain, whatever it is, it's something where someone gives you possibly their name and their email for a PDF or video or whatever. And from there you can email, continue emailing based on HIPPAA and talking about where does it start, where does it end. So, you know, I work with a lot of clients. Part of the marketing that we do is not just a website, but also creating what's called the lead generator, where on their website they have something like five, you know, five exercises you can do for chronic pain or five ways to beat or not beat or to cope with anxiety or stress, something like that where a client or a prospective client let me be clear on that, or someone visiting your website would enter in their name and their email. For that they receive like a PDF or a video or something, and then they're then therefore added to like an email campaign. So with what does that mean for HIPPAA?

Rolf: [00:17:26] So here's the thing. Let's go back to that phone call to the office. Right. So it's just, you know, we're just in. We're in a different time. You can always kind of apply some things that would have been the same way, right? So if someone's just punching around on your website and looking around. Right. Typically depend on who your website, who your provider is. Right. That you're collecting information, right? I mean, that website is collecting information about people. So once someone takes an active step to basically be interested in your product, to provide you with their information that they may be receiving services, that's where you want to have a little bit more of a heightened stance with respect to that and make sure people understand when they're when they're giving you their information, what they're kind of getting themselves into. But you have that standard. Usually there's a standard consent that they can view. When they come on like most websites usually, but some websites don't even have it. They'll go to them, right? Somebody created something and and that's their. So as you're taking that information and if they become a patient of the practice, you're going to basically treat it almost the same way you would if they receive services from you. Right. And they become a pain client, let's say. Right. As you take that information, When you're taking that information, you'd want to just make sure that they're consenting to give their information to you. It's a really a standard thing. And there's a lot of other like the crazy thing about this whole world we live in now with this global reach that we have, right? You got people that are coming in and accessing you from different countries all around the world who have all of these. I think it's like last time I counted or saw was like 173 countries that have some form of privacy law in place for people's information when they come to you.

Rolf: [00:19:20] Right. It's it's too much for somebody who's like you can't fathom trying to accommodate all those laws with your face fronting website for your business. Right. So, you know, kind of really the whole thing is, is that people just understand that they are that they've had it when they you know, you check that box, right. That they had a chance to review your privacy policy or whatever you have in place as they come through. Right. To give you that information. Right. I think that some I don't know that. There's kind of a different viewpoint, right? You're kind of just really, you know, it's as if someone's picking up a brochure or stopping by your office kind of thing. It's something like that or inquiring. But the safe side that we kind of consult with our clients is that anybody who's coming in to you and giving you your information, you should protect. Because the other thing that I'm going to tell you is that there are. Every state in the country has a Data Privacy Protection Act that is more far reaching than just for health care. Oftentimes, these privacy protection acts will tell you that if you're regulated by HIPPAA, that that will apply to you instead of this this state law. And they take all different kind of forms as far as what your notification obligations are. If you lose somebody's information. But really, a lot of it is just collecting someone's name and an email address, because that's the value to have is that the marketing tool is the email address. Right? It's almost it's more valuable than the name.

Heather: [00:20:56] Yeah, absolutely.

Rolf: [00:20:58] So, you know, as you take that in, you just want to make sure that people understand them. When they're giving you that information, they understand that they're submitting information over the Internet. All of these things are usually kind of there. There's a lot of boilerplate stuff. You can get some other things because the other next step is that once you establish a rapport and you have the patient in your office, right. And then you want to communicate with them and first things that are not marketing. Mm hmm. Typically when you get that, like I'll tell you from my own personal experience, I have some I have a couple of kids, Right. Their health care provider, their pediatrician's office. Right. Is like adamant that they won't email certain situations that we have to go to this portal. Right. Or all these things that take place. It frustrates me when I'm just trying to get something done and I know that they can fax me back or email me back that sports physical. I need to get turned in because my kid just gave it to me the night before and says, Dad, it's due tomorrow, but I either have to go in there in person to get it filled out and all these other things, and they have this strict protocol.

Rolf: [00:22:02] Well, HIPPAA does allow the patient to consent to like an unsecure correspondence. Right. Or to receive text messages. So once they kind of come into your practice, that's really one of the best things to do, is to try to have that consent put in place so that you can communicate them via just a regular SMS messaging or anything like that without the concern is there. Again, they need to understand everything needs to be in writing, that they understand that this information that they're going to transmit back and forth with you is out there on the, I guess, so-called the World Wide Web. Right. So. That that's taken place and it's not secure. And it could be. And the reality of it is right. Everybody understands, right? You can have the most secure system in the world. But if something happens like somebody can, information can be lost. And that leads into other things that when you have a problem, don't ignore it and figure out what you're supposed to do.

Heather: [00:22:58] Yeah, Yeah, I love that. So I think the big idea here is over communicating your privacy policy, ensuring that people understand the ways that you like, letting them opt in to the ways that they can be communicated with and making sure that they're they kind of navigate that side of things, that they're in control as the client, that they understand that if you're sending them a text that that might not be on a secure system and things like that, correct?

Rolf: [00:23:29] Right. I mean, there's there's some people who just want the people to be able to leave the information. I mean, this is all just relative in your risk peoples comfortable ness with risk, Right? Everybody is you know, we're lawyers, we're risk averse. Right. You've got to understand that's what we were training to do, right? That's kind of what our mindset is. But what we want to get to. Yes, right. That's the other thing, too. But, you know, sometimes people just say, well, I have the privacy policy post. They can see it. Right? And then there's times where it's like, okay, right, Maybe you have them just check that box. They acknowledge they had a chance to review it, but. Because that person has gone a step further and basically give an affirmation that I knew I could have reviewed it. I checked the box that I had the opportunity to. So that if they make a complaint or something down the road, for whatever reason it might be, you kind of have that that they actually took an affirmative, you know, and I guess it kind of gets back to that whole thing. I am not a bot, right, that you see on everywhere you go, right? I mean, that person is doing I mean, that's done in a in a sense of a control factor to keep the traffic for the website and everything going forward and all of that just to make you go the extra step. So you just can't kind of just bombard the website for information, but it's the same concept. You're taking that one extra step, which hopefully if something does arise, you can use that to your advantage if you need to.

Heather: [00:24:50] Yeah. So regarding marketing, what could they be doing to protect their their current clients, past clients, their business? Are there any things that they should know, like any steps that they should take to when they're working on their marketing to protect?

Rolf: [00:25:10] So one of the first things, right, that you where you can start is you're supposed to have what's called the notice of privacy practices available to for your patients. Right. That they've acknowledged and received. I think that's kind of really when the person becomes a patient, right? If you have a website. Right, typically you should have this notice of privacy practice available on your website. And within that notice of privacy practice, it should say, you know, you should have within it that you are going to you may use their information for marketing, right? So they understand that I'm giving you this information which has been deemed private by all these regulatory bodies and by me. This person has come to you. Right. And I understand that you may have some information, and I acknowledge that I might receive marketing from you. Right. And you see, that's the start. Right? But then once they kind of come into the fold of the practice, they should almost consent to receiving the marketing as well, because that's that's kind of the step in is, you know, you've created a formal, more formal relationship with the patient now. And a lot of things are not going to be just that somebody was surfing the web and found this of interest.

Heather: [00:26:17] Yeah, yeah, I love that. So even just on your intake form, if you want to say, hey, we send out, you know, marketing or informational tips, newsletters, things like that, would you like it and have them check that.

Rolf: [00:26:33] Box, correct. Right. I mean, it's almost as you know, I mean, it's one of those things where you make, you know, they should have the ability to opt out if they want to. Right. You know, most people are not I would say like this. I'd said like 95% of the people out there are not really sensitive about some of these things, you know? And it always kind of deals with the sensitivity of that protected health information. I mean, if you know, if it's just a. You know, depending on the type of practice that you're doing and what's going on. Right. And we all know that there are things that are more sensitive to people and that there are people that are more sensitive in general.

Heather: [00:27:14] About.

Rolf: [00:27:15] This. So you need to have that window for them to to not get marketed to. And then just understand, like, what is it that I do right? What kind of procedures do I do? What part of the body image creating all of these different types of things? I mean, if somebody is receiving psychotherapy as opposed to basically, you know, going to somewhere that is really more, I'd say, like a physical medicine type place. It's just, you know. Like physical therapy, right? I mean, that's more, you know, somebody suffered an injury, all these other things. Is there an embarrassment associated as much as there is or a stigma even I would call it, because, you know, we still have stigma around behavioral health services in this world for whatever reason. So those are the things you know, there's just a lot of things to consider. And it doesn't really matter if it's a more sensitive health issue or not. You kind of apply the same standards as far as that goes.

Heather: [00:28:16] Yeah, but.

Rolf: [00:28:17] I would say nine times out of ten people are going to not worry about it. And as I give you the example earlier, right, my kids communication with the doctor's office. Right. People want convenience, right? This is the thing. Right. And they want they don't want to they don't want to have all of these two factor authentication codes to go in to get their own, what they consider to be their own information. Now, the problem happens when something happens to it and they feel, oh, do I have the ability to sue somebody under HIPPAA? I mean, the one thing I will say right now is there is no specific private cause of action for a HIPPA violation. You can be fined by the federal government. The state attorney general's can come after you. Right. But it doesn't give an individual like some of the other federal statutes that are out there, a specific cause of action. There are certain states now, California being the leader in it that has kind of their privacy act, does give people the ability to go after somebody for a set amount of damages to start with, if there has been some if their information was handled inappropriately.

Heather: [00:29:24] Yeah, definitely. Well, I always like to leave my listeners with some kind of takeaway and and really, what would that takeaway be for them? How could what can they do to ensure that they are following HIPPAA?

Rolf: [00:29:40] So here's the here's the key thing, right? The key thing is just to be aware of it. To do some training on your own. There's plenty of resources out there. I mean, Health and Human Services has a very as almost too much information, I'd say. Right. But there are some older training videos that would still be relevant for your office staff and everything going on. And then just to make sure that anybody you're doing business with to assist you has an understanding as well, and that whenever you're marketing your services, however it might be, there's all of these regulatory things that come into play, right? I mean, we're talking about marketing and we haven't even gotten into the Anti-kickback statute that can apply to marketing services as well if you're billing for services, right? There's this whole other aspect of marketing that takes place because you can't get paid on a volume or value of a referral, right? I mean, so per click agreements, all of these things, that's a whole different thing you've got to consider. But when it comes to HIPPA, make sure you understand and have an idea. And then the thing is, is it's like if it's remember, I kind of start off, you have a duty to hold people's information in a. We're just in a whole different world now with all of these apps on people's phones and people are using devices that their family members could have access to their accessing it in public. So just to heighten awareness and the one thing I will always say, right, is if you if you have if a problem comes to your attention, it's like a lot of things. The worst thing you can do is just hope that it goes away. You know, you should figure out what's going on and you should have some policies, kind of some office policies in place that that give you an opportunity to show if you ever do have something taking place that you did do the things that were necessary and you treated this information in the correct way. You know, so and also, prevention goes a long way, as I say. Right.

Heather: [00:31:39] Right. Definitely. And I think the big idea also is to, like you said, err on the side of caution. And then if you have additional questions to really contact a lawyer, a hip. A lawyer.

Rolf: [00:31:52] Yeah. And here's the thing. I'll see right there. There's a lot of people who are there's a lot of people who come into health care business, right. From the from the tech world and other things like that, who won't don't always understand these things. And or you as you as somebody in a practice are being told that something's hip compliant. Right. This product and service and and that's that's almost a you're taking somebody at their word there are some products that are out there but these are mostly like electronic medical records and things like that that do get vetted by third party vendor by Health and Human Services and CMS for what they provide because there's a cash incentive for providers to move to electronic medical records. That's a whole different thing, right? So that's kind of give the analogy, right? It's like if I'm buying like in that situation, I'm buying the Cadillac from the Cadillac dealer that I know was made by General Motors and came off the assembly line. In this world that you're dealing with when you have people that are marketing hip products or HIPPA compliant products that haven't gone through this certification process that the federal government has in place, they're just telling you that it's built to the industry standard that HIPPA is is required to have.

Rolf: [00:33:06] Right. Security functions, things like that. What's taking place? Cloud based, server based, all these things, just these crazy things that are a lot to take into. Right. But that's the Cadillac that you're buying. That's two months old out of a wanted. And you're just trusting that it has all of those things, right? So you just want to make sure you ask the right questions, understand what's going on. And again, the whole thing is the other thing I'll say is I don't ignore patients or people that have a make a complaint or do anything or make a request for this or that. Right. Pay attention to that, because when they don't get what they want, they go somewhere else. And that's somewhere else is a regulatory body that all of a sudden ends up contacting you. And you're like, I could have probably taken care of this if I would have just paid attention to the person there. Right? You got to understand that with everything, right? 95% of the. I use that number, right. Everything's going to go smoothly. Right? And every once in a while you have these hiccups that have happened. Pay attention to the hiccups that do come into play.

Heather: [00:34:09] Mm hmm. Great. Well, thank you so much, Rolf. I know we could spend days probably digging into this more.

Rolf: [00:34:19] Things are probably been updated as we spoke, so.

Heather: [00:34:22] Right. There's something new release right now. But thank you very much for taking the time to be on here. So additional reading to really to help you resources to read more and to train your team would be like state regulations. Make sure you understand state regulations and then the associations for your particular field, you know, like make sure that you are very clear on all of that.

Rolf: [00:34:50] Those. They have guidance right now. And as I'll say right, the federal government, they do their best to try to keep things up to date. The Health and Human Services, well, it has a lot of resources. I mean, it's one place we always look because, you know, we don't have. As somebody who works in a privacy field or an attorney. Right. It's like you kind of got to make sure that you're looking at things as well. So a lot of a lot of updates come out along these lines. And sometimes, you know, you just just scratch your head and try to figure out what exactly they want you to do. But usually there's an answer you can find. And again, it's the attempt to try. It's the attempt to be compliant. Right. This is the thing I'm always going to say we're compliance attorneys, Right. If you if you've made an attempt to be compliant and tried, that's better than ignoring it completely. Yes.

Heather: [00:35:38] So what's so good? Definitely. If you know, if you have questions, you can obviously reach out to Ralf and his team at Wycliffe Associates. And again, I appreciate you being on here. So happy marketing you all and make sure that you're you have the information before you for HIPPA as you're working through your marketing process. Have a great day, guys. Thanks.

Rolf: [00:36:05] Thank you, Heather. Take care.

Heather: [00:36:07] Thank you. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you're interested in learning more about marketing. Check out my blogs at 3C. Digital Media networks or Therapy Marketing Solutions dot com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.